MC Fireside Chats – November 4th, 2026

 [00:00:45] Brian Searl: Did that work? No, it didn’t work. Can you guys hear me? 

[00:00:49] Michael Moore: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:00:50] Brian Searl: But you can’t see me. 

[00:00:51] Michael Moore: Correct. 

[00:00:52] Brian Searl: I knew I forgot something. All right. Well, welcome to MC Fireside Chats, everybody. You’ll see me in a second. Uh, let’s go around the room and briefly introduce our guests. We got Michael Moore and Ben Hirsch here.

[00:01:03] Ben Hirsch: All right. Thanks for having me. 

[00:01:06] Michael Moore: Yeah. I mean, I’ll go. Uh, I, I, I do a couple things. So I’m assistant executive director of the Texas Association of Campground Owners, and then general manager, uh, of AGS Guest Guides. 

[00:01:19] Ben Hirsch: Great. And yeah, I’m Ben Hirsch. I’m, uh, chief operating officer for Campers Inn RV, and, um, I also serve on a couple different industry boards, one here in Florida and then another one called the Priority RV Network

[00:01:37] Michael Moore: Well, Brian, you have a box, but we can’t see or hear you, so

[00:01:47] Brian Searl: Test, test, one, two

[00:01:49] Ben Hirsch: There we go. We can hear you now.

[00:01:50] Michael Moore: We can hear you.

[00:01:51] Brian Searl: Okay, cool. All right, uh, so it’s, uh, it’s a little bit of a light attendance today. I don’t know where everybody is. Like, nobody told me they weren’t coming today. Uh, they might’ve- … told Sharah and I might just not have just paid attention.

I’ll get my camera fixed as soon as I can here. But, uh, to, to our typical, you know, recurring guests, which is just, uh, you know, Michael today, Um, we typically start the show by saying is there anything that you think we should be paying attention to that has happened since the last month we’ve been together, other than, you know, what happened last night?

We don’t wanna start any controversies or- Hmm … get anybody to tune out. 

[00:02:20] Michael Moore: I mean, you know, I don’t think there’s any controversy about what happened last night. It was, you know, I don’t know what the language rules are here, but it was an ass-kicking, so, you know. That’s not controversial, I don’t think to say.

But, um, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, as far as industry, uh, or the industry goes, you know, as you know, Brian, and probably you know, Ben, you know, we’ve got a lot of these, uh, operator shows coming up, and some that already happened, like the glamping show. So, um, I think that’s gonna be, um, uh, there’s gonna be some things that are rolled out at these events and, and, uh, you know, vendors rolling out new things that I think will be, uh, very interesting for campground operators 

[00:02:58] Brian Searl: Yeah.

What do you, what do you expect this year from some of the attendance? Like, to be clear, I’m not going this year, but that’s b- not because I expect attendance to be low or anything. I just, uh, am head down on some big projects that we’re doing for the industry. And, you know, now that we’re all vibe coding with AI, I feel like, uh-

you know, a day away is like three weeks or three months for me. Um, so I’m looking f- I’m … Like, I’m gonna miss the networking and all that stuff, but, uh, I, I’m, I’m curious, what do you think the conferences are gonna be like this year? Do you think they’ll be as well attended? I mean, it’s normally … I know you’re in, in Texas normally, Michael, but, like-

[00:03:29] Michael Moore: Mm-hmm

[00:03:29] Brian Searl: isn’t Texas and West Coast typically a little bit softer than the East Coast? 

[00:03:34] Michael Moore: Um, well, what I’ve been hearing, um, is as far as the vendors go, exhibitors, that’s very strong, you know, for these, for the events coming up, whether it’s the, uh, the OHI show, the OHCE or KOA or the, the Campground Owners Expo in Branson.

The vendor presence is very strong in those. Now, as far as attendees go, obviously, you know, we don’t, we don’t know final numbers until, uh, we’re there, but, um, I would, I would venture a guess that that part may be a little light as far as attendees go, only because, um, if, if the trend of, of people, uh, sort of tightening their belt this year, uh, continues, uh, then it only makes sense that it would, um, sort of make its way into things like, you know, traveling for shows and stuff like that.

So that would be my guess. Um, but again, as far as the vendors go, that appears to be very strong. 

[00:04:28] Brian Searl: Yeah, I noticed that, uh, I don’t think OHI was sold out last time I looked. They were still pitching a few booths, but they were pretty close to 200. 

[00:04:35] Michael Moore: Yeah. 

[00:04:36] Brian Searl: So yeah, I don’t see … Like, I, I thought, I’ve, I’ve wondered about this this year as the e- as the economy is up, down, roller-coastered, whatever is happening to it now, whether that would impact attendance at all, specifically with the vendors.

But I think that we’ve seen, like, the opposite. I wasn’t at the glamping show. Were you there, Michael, or? 

[00:04:53] Michael Moore: I wasn’t, but I heard, I heard that was very strong as well as far as vendors and exhibitors go, though. 

[00:04:59] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think I … It’s, it’s interesting to me. Like, I’m glad that they’re still coming out, but that’s kinda the sense I got was like, well, is it the attendees that go first or the vendors?

I feel like it’s the attendees if, if anybody- Yeah … goes, right? And nobody’s saying that anybody’s gonna go. Uh, but economic-wise, it would be the attendees first because the vendors still need to sell, right? 

[00:05:17] Michael Moore: Right. Right. Yeah, and if you … You know, I mean, look, you’ve gone as a vendor. I’ve gone as a vendor.

Ben, you may have gone as a vendor. But, you know, uh, for, for what you get out of those shows, a lot of times it’s still a value, whether it’s the face time or the networking or the leads or what have you. So, you know, it, it, it’s very clear that the exhibitors maybe have not, uh, hit a sort of, uh, threshold yet that they wouldn’t mind meeting.

But yeah, as far as attendees go, uh, you know, just from experience, things like these events are usually the first thing to go as far as, you know, your, your travel budget or your marketing budget or what have you, so. 

[00:05:53] Brian Searl: Yeah, that’s my sense too. Like, I mean, again, it’s not a budgetary reason for us, but it was just kind of one of those trade-offs where we were like, if we’re gonna skip a year, maybe it’s the one that’s not on the East Coast.

I don’t… Where are they next year?

[00:06:03] Michael Moore: Yeah.

[00:06:03] Brian Searl: Do we know yet? 

[00:06:05] Michael Moore: I don’t know. I was, I was asking someone that today. I don’t know. I, you know, they usually, I know for the public’s sake, wait to announce it at the current show, so I’m sure we’ll hear about it either- 

[00:06:14] Brian Searl: But doesn’t it usually bounce between the same places, right?

Like, it’s Orlando, or it’s Louisville, or it’s Kansas City, or, and KOA follows the same similar circuit, right? 

[00:06:22] Michael Moore: Yeah. No, I would s- 

[00:06:23] Brian Searl: Then KOA gets into Vegas … 

[00:06:24] Michael Moore: yeah, I would say OHI has gone to different places. Uh, they kind of alternate. So Louisville, I think, was a first for them, at least first as far as I can remember.

Uh, but Fort Worth, they were in Fort Worth, I think, 10 years ago, you know? So, um- 

[00:06:38] Brian Searl: Yeah, and they were in Oklahoma City too. 

[00:06:40] Michael Moore: Right. Yeah. They’ve been there a couple times the last, uh, 10 years or so. So yeah, you’re right. They were gonna say- 

[00:06:45] Brian Searl: And was it Knox- it was Knoxville. Knoxville was where it was. It wasn’t Louisville.

I was thinking Louisville before, but Knoxville. 

[00:06:50] Michael Moore: Yeah. Yeah. But, and, and you’re right, I mean, they typically do not go any further west than here or Kansas City or what have you. I mean, I, I’d have to go back and see. I think the last time they did was that KOA show in Phoenix, and that was probably 15 years ago or something 

like that.

Um- 

[00:07:06] Brian Searl: But yeah, K- KOA was in Vegas, I think, four or five years ago. But out, like Vegas-

[00:07:09] Michael Moore: That’s right …

[00:07:10] Brian Searl: is the outlier ’cause they, they can- Yeah … draw people to Vegas, I think. 

[00:07:13] Michael Moore: Right. 

[00:07:13] Brian Searl: But it’s that- 

[00:07:13] Michael Moore: Right. Well, and look, it i- it is truly about, you know, whether it’s OHI or KOA, it’s, it’s what partially plays into it is where you have it and if you can get the locals, right?

And so I know for a fact the last time it was in Fort Worth, the OHI show, it was very well attended, so I’m sure that factored into why they came back too, so. 

[00:07:32] Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure. Fort Worth is a great city. Ben, how does this work in the RV industry?

[00:07:36] Ben Hirsch: Yeah.

[00:07:36] Brian Searl: And I’m gonna end up jumping on my phone here in a second if I can’t get this working.

Like, it’s showing up on my computer, but it will not let me turn on the camera, so I don’t know what’s going- 

[00:07:43] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, so we’re actually, we’re, we’re one week away from the, uh, the annual dealers convention. That’s next week. 

[00:07:47] Brian Searl: In Vegas, right? Yeah, RVA 

[00:07:49] Ben Hirsch: In Vegas. Yep. So, um, you’re asking about attendance there. I don’t actually anticipate there’d be a huge change in the number of dealers that go, but the number of personnel that each dealer brings, I could see that, that definitely changing, just like you guys said.

You look at the expense of it and you say, “Okay, well, how many people are we gonna bring this year?” Right? And, um, so I can see that changing. It’s still a really big show for manufacturers, suppliers, uh, the banks. Uh, they all go. So I, I don’t see the exhibitor list changing a whole lot. There’s actually some exhibitors that I, that haven’t typically gone that have already told us that they’re going to go.

Um, and that’s really it for conventions, ’cause Louisville used to be it, that’s gone, and then the other one this, for us, is already passed, which is the open house in September 

[00:08:33] Brian Searl: So what did you see– Did you go to any of the consumer RV shows, Ben, this year? 

[00:08:37] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, I, I go to a bunch. They’re usually, um… I didn’t go to Hershey.

Um, I, I heard from the team at that one, but I go to the ones typically January through March. Like that’s– Those are the ones that I’ve been going to. Um, and actually, in the first quarter, attendance was fine when the weather was good. Kinda caught us off guard that the market ended up being quite, quite off as much as it was on the new side because the shows didn’t really show– They didn’t predict that if you were just gonna look at some of the show attendance.

[00:09:03] Brian Searl: I’m gonna go off for a second and then switch onto my phone, but I can hear you guys still. Was that seamless? Except for an echo? 

[00:09:12] Michael Moore: Well, now there’s an echo. 

[00:09:13] Ben Hirsch: Yep, echo. 

[00:09:14] Brian Searl: I’m walking away from my computer. It’ll get better in a second. I just wanted the attention since I wasn’t on camera, so you guys could hear me twice.

So, uh- 

[00:09:24] Michael Moore: Well, I think, I, I- 

[00:09:24] Brian Searl: What do we think the pulse is of, like we- we’re talking about these shows and how everybody is, you know, expecting decent attendance. I think OHI’s gonna have decent attendance. I think KOA is the same, to your point, Ben. I think the dealers are the same because they’re coming for education, they’re coming for networking more so than anything else.

[00:09:42] Ben Hirsch: Right. 

[00:09:42] Brian Searl: What do we think the outlook is for the consumer? Do we have any sense of that in 2027? Because it wasn’t the prettiest of years in 2026. Maybe more so, is it fair to say it was, it more impacted the RV industry than it did the campground industry in 2026, Ben? Or- 

[00:09:58] Ben Hirsch: I got, I have to think it would. So some of the data that we’re looking at from a sales perspective is, um- If you look at the whole market, not just new, and you look at just used and stat surveys, we’re actually seeing that it’s flat year over year on the used side.

So where, where the industry’s dropping off, the 16-ish percent through August, which is the latest stats that we have through stat surveys, um, is, uh, it’s echoing just a little bit. But, uh, the 16% off that, that, uh, that we saw was on the new side, and when you combine it, I did this math, it’s something like 5% total off, because, uh, used significantly outsells new.

A lot of private to private transactions in the industry. Which leads me to believe there’s not, like, this massive outpouring of customers not, like, using their RVs, buying RVs. They’re just shifting the buying patterns more than anything. They’re shifting more towards the used, and that’s kind of lead me to believe that they’re, um, they’re out there using it.

And the other thing that we’re seeing is, is that the length of ownership is, uh, is getting longer as well. So the length of the loans have significantly increased, um, from COVID, or right before COVID. So length of loans. By significantly, I mean, like, a 12 to 24 months is significant. It’s a, it’s a real material change.

So the customers, um, are gonna be owning their RVs for longer as well, with longer loans, and that delays the buying cycle as well. So I think we’re experiencing a couple different things. So, um, yesterday or the day before, Matt Wagner from, um, Camping World actually put out on the, um, uh, the earnings call, um, I listened to it, that, uh, they expect, uh, the market to be down, uh, single digits, uh, or flat to down single digits next year.

We’re expecting the same sort of thing on the new side. On the used side, we’re not expecting to see that, just based on customer shift towards affordability. Um- 

[00:11:46] Brian Searl: You think it’ll go up on the used side? Sorry, you’re just a little bit low now that I’m on my phone. 

[00:11:50] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, no, I, I don’t know if it’s gonna go up.

I mean, this year, it’s like within a percent, right? So that’s, I call that flat. Like 1% doesn’t really change much one way or the other. So I think, uh, my, the best guess is that used will be, let’s call it stable as a market, and then new will probably be down a few points, 5%, somewhere in that range. Um, and the whole market will see it, uh, off a little bit with stabilization at some point next year on a year over year basis.

But that’s a big prediction. 

[00:12:20] Brian Searl: And is it across all… Sorry, I thought you were, apologize, I thought you were done. Uh, is it across all model types, though, or are you seeing some growth in new, like, uh, camper vans, things, things like that? Or they’re not something that dealers typically carry a lot of inventory of. 

[00:12:36] Ben Hirsch: Yeah.

The, the new year-over-year is different based on the types, right? Like the hardest hit, I’m going from memory, I don’t have the data in front of me, I think like Class A gas is one of the new- one of the hardest hit ones, whereas, um, Class Cs were not as down year-over-year from a national basis. Travel trailers and fifth wheels, I’m going from memory, I think we’re right around what the, what the industry average was.

Um, but to your question, like predicting out to ’27, it just seems like affordability, um, as a primary driver is one thing with a secondary on quality, right? Is, is what I hear from the teams, what I hear from, from the customers, is that those are two major drivers that we’re seeing on the retail side. 

[00:13:16] Brian Searl: I think it’s interesting, like, a- and Michael, if you have any more thoughts on this, I don’t want to talk about the economy the whole show, right?

If you have any more thoughts on this, uh, uh, my, my, my standpoint is we’re kind of on this precipice here of, yes, we just had, we’re not gonna talk about it, but we just had an election, or you guys had an election. I didn’t have an election. I’m up in Canada. Uh, you guys had an election and, uh, whether you’re happy with the results or unhappy with the results, I think a lot hinges on what happens now that that election has passed, right?

Do we continue the things that have been primary causes of the reason that that election turned out the way that it did yesterday? Purposely being vague, right? But I think we all kind of understand what contributed to that switch, uh, probably in the minds of voters with exit pol- exit polls, stuff like that, whether you agree with it or not, right?

Uh, so I think the precipice is, is does that policy continue into 2027, and does it exacerbate gas prices, diesel prices, inflation, things like that, that cause people to tighten up their pocketbooks? Or is this a, “Well, they didn’t like it, so let’s reverse what we think they didn’t like,” just in, just, you know, purposely avoiding politics, right?

And then does that result in a comeback of 2027 of people’s purchasing ability and power? I think we- it’s way too early to tell, right? But- 

[00:14:35] Michael Moore: Yeah, I mean- 

[00:14:36] Brian Searl: I really think that- 

[00:14:36] Michael Moore: Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, everything I’ve seen about it too, and again, truly to your point, this is not a, a political statement, but I think there’s gonna be a real focus on the afford- affordability question in, in all aspect, whether it’s gas, whether it’s, you know, utilities, that kinda stuff.

And I know even working with, you know, campgrounds, uh, with the association here, uh, we’re doing things or gonna do things legislatively in an effort to fight that too in various ways. And so my point with all that is, it’s absolutely gonna be addressed, and I think gonna be touched on. The question is, how quickly will the sort of impact of those changes, if you will, be felt, right?

Meaning- Yeah … it may be too soon, like, for next summer for people to sort of come back around and go, “You know what? I have more money this summer than I did last year. Let me go take a, an RV trip,” or, “Let me take another one,” or whatever. But I do think there eventually will be sort of a, a circling back where hopefully, you know, the, the powers that be do things that, uh, help people out that, that need it and, uh, will give them that kind of extra income, uh, you know, buy a new RV or a used one, or take that other trip or what have you.

[00:15:50] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, and, you know- Regardless of where your political stance is, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty obvious that one of the things that was voted for, voted on yesterday when you look at some of the ballot measures, affordability was, like, really in voters’ minds, right? So a good example… Love the dog. A good example is, uh, uh, Florida, right?

So you look at, um, one of the ballot measures, I live in Florida, one of the ballot measures was on the, um, homestead exemption, which basically is like a property tax relief for homeowners. Um, and it was voted over si- it was like 62% voted for it, right? So these are people that are really looking at affordability as a major issue for them.

And then you look at the campaigns that a lot of, um, re- re- once again, regardless of which side you were listening to, what, what was being talked about, affordability was on the ballot. And it seems like, um- It seems like politicians know what’s on, what’s on the minds of the, of, of the people. At least that’s kinda one of my takeaways.

And then- 

[00:16:52] Brian Searl: I think they do now. Yeah, I think they do now. 

[00:16:54] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, for sure.

[00:16:55] Michael Moore: The ones that won do.

[00:16:56] Ben Hirsch: Well, right? Right, but isn’t that kinda the point? Like, the ones that won actually usually had campaigns about it. So, like I, I don’t wanna get super political, but Florida’s one I track really heavily, right? So a Republican did win governor, but he ran on a very, very jobs, and economy, and affordability, like, you know, thing

when, when, when the polls got really close, uh, there. So it was, it’s just kinda interesting. I think the people are speaking about that. I think it impacts our business as a dealer, I think it impacts the campground business because this is what’s on people’s minds right now, is like, “How do I continue vacationing in an affordable way?”

And I think that’s like, trust me, like that is implanted in our minds right now as a dealer is how do we, um, make sure that the piece that we participate in is, is, continues to be affordable for the customer? Because they are getting pinched right now, whether it’s at the gas pump, whether it is interest rates, which don’t look like they’re gonna come down any time soon, right?

Like if, if we’re really honest- Yeah … the AI, um, sector and the tech sector is driving a lot of investment in the United States economy, and the only lever that the Fed has to put some brakes on that is interest rates. So even if we’re in pain, housing’s in pain, that’s gonna be challenging for them to lower interest rates to help us when the AI sector is like really kinda booming.

So I think we just have to recognize like what, what world do we live in? Is interest rates likely going to be relieved in the next 12, 18, 24 months? Probably not. Could gas prices? Who the hell knows? It’s super geopolitical. Like, so we have no control over that. That’s, that’s up to some very few people to decide the geopolitical risk and how that impacts our oil prices.

So I know it’s a long answer, answer, Brian, but my mind goes to like we just have to be super reactive to what’s going on ’cause there’s a lot we don’t control. 

[00:18:47] Brian Searl: Welcome, Raf. We’re not gonna talk about politics the whole episode, I promise you. So be clear what’s on your brain. 

[00:18:51] Rafael Correa: It’s, uh, it’s all the rage today- 

[00:18:53] Brian Searl: Yeah

[00:18:53] Rafael Correa: and yesterday. 

[00:18:54] Brian Searl: Um, but my s- my read on- 

[00:18:56] Rafael Correa: I’m just glad political ads are done. That’ll, that’s, uh-

[00:18:57] Brian Searl: Yeah …

[00:18:58] Rafael Correa: that’s all. 

[00:18:58] Brian Searl: Well, I didn’t have an election, so I was fine up here. It was peaceful. Uh, but uh, like my, my sense is, and, and I’m, again, I’m an American, I lived there for all my life, right? Until 2021. My sense of what happened was not a rebuke of party, it was a rebuke of policy.

Like you were talking about, Ben, right? Like I, I don’t think it was a rebuke of the GOP, uh, or the Republicans. I think it was a… And, and there was a tweet by JD Vance that I don’t know if you guys read, where he came out and he’s like, “The pollster said,” like it was Iran war, inflation, cost of living, America first, and then like stop being buddies with Israel, is what Vance said in his post, right?

Uh, so I think, I think that’s- It is what it is, right? The people have spoken. It’s not… But I don’t think it was a, a revolt against the GOP, to your point, Ben. What do you think, Raf? You wanna weigh in or you wanna change topics immediately? 

[00:19:46] Rafael Correa: No, I mean, it’s, it’s… I think Ben said it super well, right? And he’s talking about the American consumer, but, you know, from a campground owner’s perspective, it’s the same problem, right?

Costs are going up, revenues are, you know, flat to down. It is, you know, it’s a pinch, uh, and it’s hitting us. You know, I, I, I sympathize with my dealer and manufacturer friends because we certainly don’t have it as bad as they do right now with respect to, you know, sales and shipments and all that stuff, just because that went from, you know, the COVID high to the COVID reset to where we are today.

But it’s, it’s definitely making it super hard on our side of the business, and interest rates has a tremendous impact on real estate values and valuation and how that whole cycle works as well. So we’re just living in this super weird time, right? This super weird time where, you know, we have AI that seems to be fueling this, you know, hopefully fueling this next phase of gigantic growth for this country, uh, a- against this kind of juxtaposition of, you know, the individual consumers getting pinched, you know, healthcare costs going up.

You know, it’s not getting better for us. This age of abundance that some people like to talk about doesn’t seem like it’s immediately on the horizon, that’s for sure. 

[00:20:54] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think if you set aside, if you just… Let’s just set aside the war in Iran now, right, which seems to be the cause of the top four things that were on Mr. Vance’s list at least, uh, that his pollster said was the reason that they claimed the GOP lost. Let’s set that aside for a second and talk about data centers, ’cause that’s the other thing. I mean, this episode is about trends and insights and stuff like that, right? There seemed to be an overwhelming sentiment in the elections as well of anti-data center.

[00:21:19] Michael Moore: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:20] Brian Searl: So the question then becomes is, yes, AI is definitely the way forward. I think we’re in an AI bubble, that those companies can never earn back the money that they’re borrowing. Doesn’t mean AI is not the future. I’m all in on that. But, uh, if this political wind change for the data center, for the data centers, that seems to be a large majority of what is propping up the top end of the stock market here, which is, uh, probably the, setting aside the Iran war, my biggest worry going into 2027 is that stock market.

[00:21:50] Michael Moore: Well, and look, that was, I mean, literally one of the top two or three issues in the governor’s race here was the data centers, meaning our, our current soon-to-be former Governor Abbott was real big on them and, and welcoming them in here. And then the tide kinda turned and the now, and, you know, governor-elect Hinojosa ran commercials all day every day against it.

And before you know it, Abbott was doing a 180 on his position. So at least for, for Texas, yeah, it was a huge issue, and look, she- that’s one of those things that, that the new governor is gonna have to stick to, ’cause that was one of the planks of her entire campaign. So you’re right. I mean, now what, how big of an effect it will be, I don’t know, but I do know that they’re gonna be essentially stopped in their tracks here, at least for the short term.

[00:22:38] Brian Searl: Well, and that impacts our industry, too, which is part of the reason we’re talking about it. Yeah. We have a separate AI episode that’s in the fourth week, but there’s a whole lot of clients that we have from a marketing perspective, too, I know you probably have, Michael, too- Yeah … that are counting on those data centers being built, those construction workers- 

[00:22:51] Michael Moore: Yeah

[00:22:52] Brian Searl: who rent from RVer nearby, and, and this is now kind of uncertain now, too. 

[00:22:56] Michael Moore: Yeah. And it’s just when they, the, those kinds of campgrounds just sort of accepted, like, “Okay, I’m gonna lean more into the long-term extended stay crowd, but oh, there’s this data center, you know, down the road, so I should be good for a while.”

Well, now that is, like, oh, now that is, like, up in our, and, uh, questionable now, too. Like, is it still gonna go in? Maybe they’re not gonna build as big or as quickly or whatever. So yeah, there’s gonna be a little bit of whiplash, I think, from, from the campgrounds anyway, at least in Texas on that. 

[00:23:29] Rafael Correa: It’s a good point 

[00:23:31] Brian Searl: That’s all you gotta add, Raf?

I was hoping for some, like, real deep wisdom there, man, from you. 

[00:23:35] Rafael Correa: Well, I mean, you know, I don’t think flying Roadsters are gonna save us, but they are pretty cool. 

[00:23:41] Brian Searl: I mean, it depends. Like, could you deploy a camper while it’s spinning in the air? That would be really interesting. 

[00:23:46] Rafael Correa: I think someone made that post.

[00:23:47] Brian Searl: Like, how you would make that up on the sun, wind.

[00:23:48] Rafael Correa: Some- didn’t somebody do that with an RV? I saw somebody, A- I mean, an AI post of an RV making that flip. It was pretty cool. 

[00:23:54] Brian Searl: I don’t know. I wanna see that though. But, uh, it could work. 

[00:23:57] Rafael Correa: Only exclusively available at Campers Inn RV. 

[00:24:00] Ben Hirsch: Yep. And we got a flying RV 

[00:24:02] Rafael Correa: Yeah, go to the campers show next week.

[00:24:05] Brian Searl: So we were talking briefly before you got on, Raf, if you wanna weigh in on just, uh, some of the upcoming conferences, what we expect, uh, you know, as far as attendance, vendors, things like that. Uh, you know, some of the learning, networking sessions I don’t think we touched on yet, but, but you’re, you’re-

[00:24:16] Rafael Correa: Yeah

[00:24:17] Brian Searl: you’re on the boards though, right, Raf? 

[00:24:18] Rafael Correa: Yeah, I’m on the board for, uh, OHI. So I’m, uh, currently serving as the secretary of the executive committee of OHI. Um, and I’m e- super excited for this year’s trade show, and probably not the least of which is kind of what’s gonna be unveiled on the technology side.

Um, you know, I’ve had, you know, because of where we sit in the industry and the volume of properties that we manage, we get a lot of kind of previews of what’s coming down the pipe for technology, and it’s exciting, right? Like, you know, and I- and it’s across the board, whether it’s Campspot, uh, Staylist, um, all these new things that are coming to bear on the market are just, uh, I think are gonna be game-changing for us as operators in a lot of ways, uh, and also really enhance the guest experience.

Um, that’s the two things that I’m probably the most excited about and I’m kind of paying very close attention to to see, you know, where, where the real, where the real rubber meets the road in those situations and it’s gonna- what’s gonna re- add real value to us as campground operators and owners, and ultimately, get people camping, right?

That’s the stuff that’s exciting to me. 

[00:25:20] Brian Searl: Yeah, that interests me a little bit. Like, I know, I know Staylist, Campspot just announced their AI. We’ve known that was coming for a while today. Um, and I don’t think it’s rolling out that, right? Like, it’s rolling out slowly over till the end of the year. 

[00:25:32] Rafael Correa: Like, we’re beta testing it. Uh, you know, when we get to beta test some things ’cause we, you know, we’re famous for breaking stuff here at Bluewater. If there’s, if there’s a glitch in a PMS system, we’re gonna find it. Uh, and so we’re doing some testing on that, but, you know, exciting what’s coming and the things that we have seen rolled out and just, like, little examples, like converting from one PMS system to another used to be an incredibly difficult and challenging thing to do, especially if you wanna import the historical data with the origin date information, which you kind of need all of that data to make it really useful.

Once upon a time, that was a cumbersome, you know, they didn’t wanna do it, nobody really wanted to do it. But now with AI it’s like, you know, it happens. And, and transitioning can also happen because of that. Like, it can rebuild, uh, what you have and what people are building with… I saw somebody sent me the other day, uh, Jeff Reed from Staylist sent me a, a mock-up of a website for a property that we’re doing that his AI created in one shot, and I was blown away.

Like, blown away with what it was created. So I think that’s super exciting, uh, what’s coming up in the trade show. Um, I think the, the return of the park model, uh, is also gonna be, you know, I think there’s gonna be a resurgence. They’ve… You know, if you watch and track the RVIA numbers, park models have continued to, like, it’s such a small portion of RV shipments, but it is one of the few that actually had growth this year.

Uh, we’re seeing it on our side in our Great Outdoor Cottages park model business. The demand is, like, resurge- resurfacing, uh, after a couple years of highs, even with the interest rate increase. And I think the reason for that more than anything is that people are discovering campgrounds as another way to stay, and the distribution channels are so much better, right?

We got Airbnb, we got Booking, and most of these PMS systems now connect into those channels, and so being able to offer those as alternative stays. And it’s also one where RV was, you know, flat to down, long-term was up Uh, long-term stay RV was up, but park models also were up. Um, and I think it’s because we’re offering something that you can’t get anywhere else.

A park model on a well-amenitized campground is, you know, it’s better than a hotel room where your kids can’t run up and down the halls, right? And it’s better than an Airbnb because you have a much greater breadth of amenities and, and mo- more often than not, you’re in a great location, right? And so having a place, the way I, the way I kind of always phrase it to people is if you have a place where a kid can freely ride their bike and explore like it’s their own home neighborhood, but be on vacation, have two bedrooms and a kitchen all to yourself, like there’s a tremendous value to that, to, to, to folks.

And the TAM, the total addressable market of people that can stay in a park model on a campground is way bigger than RVers, right? And so I think that’s gonna be, uh, a super exciting thing to continue to see grow, uh, especially for campground owners. Um, and there’s, as always, you know, it’s always fun to go see all the latest and greatest park model units that they bring to these shows.

So I’m, I’m thinking that it seems like everybody’s seeing increased demand there, and I’m excited to see where that goes into 2027 

[00:28:35] Brian Searl: Ben, like we, we’re talking a lot about the campground side of, you know, or Raf did, right? About the innovation that the campground, some of the suppliers are able to bring both from, you know, park models to a lesser extent, but to software, which is easier to adapt and, and I don’t wanna limit your answer or even have it necessarily touch on AI, but are there things that the dealers can do to adapt to this environment that you feel like might be changing, uh, based on where the consumer’s going?

[00:28:59] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot and, and it, and there’s a ton that we’re actually in the midst of doing and, um, I- 

[00:29:05] Brian Searl: Please tell us your secrets. Nobody watches the show. 

[00:29:08] Ben Hirsch: I know. I, I, my mind went two different directions. One is that we’re seeing, we’re seeing on the product side from the manufacturers, them utilize AI to have quicker turns on, like, product concepts, engineering, that sort of side.

That’s not us as a dealer, but we’re seeing that, and that’s pretty cool. Um, so the speed to execution on things is, is good, and that should help create products that the c- that the consumer wants, which is good. Um, but for us as a dealer, there’s a ton, right? I mean, we joked about vibe coding earlier, but most of our national leaders here at the company do a lot of vibe coding now, right?

Like, I do, too. We can just build things, and we do build things all the time, things that just help me individually that I don’t wanna do anymore ’cause I did it a bunch, to actually how do we do things that maybe our CRM can’t do or our DMS can’t do. And, like, the weeds is, you know, not just reporting, but automation and analysis so that our, our teams on the front lines can actually reach out to the customers, give them the information that they need, especially I’m thinking about, like, the service drive.

Like, we’re doing that. We’re feeding our front lines with more information or beta testing some of it to try to make that s- that, um, life cycle experience much better with a dealer instead of it just being, “Hey, you bought. See you later. Let me know when you need something.” It’s how do we actually stay more engaged with the customer throughout their entire life cycle so that we’re kind of at the center of, um- How they live and breathe within the RV cycle outside of the campgrounds, outside of using them on recreation.

And so, um, that’s where a ton of our AI development is going right now, is like around that customer experience. You talk about websites, I mean, doing mock-ups on websites, um, we’ve done that. 

[00:30:48] Brian Searl: That’s pretty bad for all the marketing people. Michael, do you still do websites? 

[00:30:52] Michael Moore: Uh, not as much. I mean, a little bit, not as much.

Certainly not as many as, as you do. That’s for sure. 

[00:30:58] Brian Searl: No, I- I’ve, I’ve been running away from marketing too, man. Don’t you worry. Yeah. I’m finally there. Yep. Uh, but sorry, 

[00:31:04] Michael Moore: I maybe didn’t catch that. But no, I mean, I’ve been, I, I mean, but at the same time, uh, just to kind of piggyback off all that, yeah, I mean, we use a lot of the same tools, and yeah, it- I won’t lie, it’s super nice to be able to churn out a website in, what, a quarter of the time at like a third of the price?

Like, yeah, sign me up, so. 

[00:31:22] Ben Hirsch: And it’s better. 

[00:31:23] Michael Moore: Yeah. Right? 

[00:31:23] Ben Hirsch: Right. And that’s the other thing, is it’s better because you don’t have to go to one of your teammates for the fifth time and tell them, “Hey, I really didn’t like this small little tweak that is gonna annoy you.”

[00:31:34] Michael Moore: Right.

[00:31:34] Ben Hirsch: Right? 

[00:31:34] Rafael Correa: Right. “

[00:31:35] Ben Hirsch: Here’s what I want,” right?

Yeah. And you just show it to them. And they’re like, “Oh, okay, cool.” 

[00:31:37] Brian Searl: And then you wait five days for it to come back and for them to switch an image out and then, yeah. Right. 

[00:31:41] Rafael Correa: Right. Well, it’s having, it’s just having such a, like fundamental shift. Like I’ve, just a, by way of example, right? And so I built my own little command center, and this now is in my email.

It goes to my teams, my granola note taker, and it’s basically collating all that into like a living, breathing to-do list that I manage in Jira, right, which is like a work ticket tool. And so, like, the, a lot of the things that I used to use my assistant for, I don’t need her anymore. Like, it is… I am, I am able to self-manage and keep on top of tasks, appointments, and everything.

But so what she is doing now though is I taught her AI video editing and she’s making incredible content for me. Uh, we’re getting ready to roll out an entire, you know, third-party management myth series, uh, that’s about to go out on YouTube, but basically kind of demystifying this concept of third-party management for RV resorts, which for a lot of people that, uh, have only ever been in the RV business, it’s kind of like there’s this curtain that they can’t s- they haven’t seen behind, so they’re afraid of what they don’t know, and so we’re trying to pull that back.

But she did all the animations, like we shot the video, and then she’s done all the graphics, all the animations, all the thumbnails for the YouTube, and has done a, a tremendous job, like high quality, right? And so she’s leveling up and, and I think that’s happening, that’s just a kind of a base case scenario of what’s happening in every organization, is everybody’s leveling up and they’re spending more time on taste and judgment and creativity and having great ideas, and I love it.

I think it’s… That to me is that there’s this productivity wave that is building in any organization or any individual that’s embracing this that is going to hit. And, and, and I, and I would kind of like to my, this is my optimist glass, going back to our discussions earlier, is that that productivity wave has got to materialize into something, uh, hopefully that is meaningful for the world and the multiple economy.

[00:33:33] Brian Searl: Yeah. You hit it, you hit it on the, the nail on the head. Uh, when you, when you say embrace, right? It’s, it, it’s do those people embrace it or not, and I think most people will, but I think there are some people… And we’ve, we felt this at our company too, right? We’ve, we… I’ve had employees who I’ve had to let go after three years ’cause I spent three years preaching to them that you gotta learn new skills and you gotta level up, and here’s the tools.

I’ll pay for everything. I’ll teach you. We’ll have meetings. We’ll do whatever. And in three years, like, when I should have probably let them go after a year, right? They still just, they’re just people who aren’t gonna do that. But I think most people will. And if they embrace that, then yeah, you’re right.

What interests me too is the speed at which this is moving, and sorry for the barking in the background. There’s- Yeah … some guys who just walked in to flush out my sprinkler system. Uh, so, uh, came in my backyard. Um, so what, what interests me in, in 2027, I think, and beyond is the speed at which all this is moving.

So we talk about the innovations in the PMSs, for example, Rob, just going back there for a second, right? Um, I, I had a demo of Staylist Apex, I think, back in, you know, I don’t know, May, something like that, April, May, something like that. Jeff gave me a, a demo, an early demo of it. Uh, really super impressive system.

The first thing I said to Jeff was, and I don’t mean this to be a criticism, this is just my opinion, is how long is the interface of the software going to be necessary? Because I think that there’s, I think there’s a trap here, right? I think there’s a trap of we got this fancy new AI, and I’m not talking specifically about Staylist, it could be anybody.

It could be our own chatbots, right? That, that we do too. Um, there’s this trap of let’s add a chatbot, let’s add this, let’s add it to the back end so we can do reporting, we can talk, we can uncover more data, but that doesn’t get our staff away from the booth behind the desk where they need to be, which is outside with a guest. 

So I don’t know how long that lasts. I think the technology leapfrogs that pretty quick. 

[00:35:14] Rafael Correa: Well, and that’s also why I think, you know, the way we’re looking at third-party management, you know, one of the reasons that we’re doing this Management Myth series is I’ve had an influx of conversations with You know, legacy campground owners that are like, “Hey, this is getting to be too complicated,” right?

Like marketing, revenue management, PMS systems. Like it is, it’s g- it’s not the same, it’s, running a campground is not the same task it was not even a year ago, right? And, and forget 10 years ago. And, and then there’s succession planning questions that pop up that come to us and like, “Hey, how do we, you know, we don’t wanna sell, we wanna keep the campground, but, you know, our only option is management.

We don’t know what that means.” And so f- you know, for all those reasons, it’s, it’s gonna get harder, right? Because if you don’t keep up and dive in and be willing to break stuff and make throwaway tools and spend three days building something that you end up throwing away ’cause it wasn’t right or knew what you needed, but it doesn’t matter, right?

‘Cause at the end of the day, you learned, and that’s what, that’s what really matters, right? You, you gain skills through that process. But if you’re not throwing yourself headlong into this, like you are going to feel some pain in the next few years, and I almost don’t care what you do, right? I mean, other than if you’re a electrician, a plumber, like, but even those folks, like their businesses are getting more sophisticated.

And if you look at some of where the VC money is going, the VC’s money is going into like AI native, building out like the infrastructure to support a plumbing business and an electrician’s business and really kind of scale them up, right? And so- 

[00:36:46] Brian Searl: But then look at the leapfrog. There are already three production runs running for Tesla Optimus.

[00:36:51] Rafael Correa: Yeah. 

[00:36:53] Ben Hirsch: Yeah. But, but even on, on that point, it’s, ’cause we have a lot of techs, right? And, and so how do I think of a tech’s productivity? It’s, it’s when they’re turning a wrench, they’re being productive. When they’re typing or doing something with a computer system to tell us what they did turning a wrench, they’re not being productive.

And to your point, like that’s why there’s so much money going into the AI investment there is ’cause if you can get independent HVAC, AC plumbers, whatever, turning the wrenches more, especially if they’re like self-employed or whatnot, that’s hugely beneficial to ’em. So can you charge ’em something so that it saves ’em 20 minutes a job on looking up, billing, all the different thing, and an agent’s doing that in the background.

Uh, we are naturally- 

[00:37:34] Brian Searl: And that’s assuming the consumer. The, the biggest use case of this is doctors entering all the-

[00:37:39] Ben Hirsch: Yeah …

[00:37:39] Brian Searl: patient information, right? 

[00:37:40] Rafael Correa: Yeah. 

[00:37:42] Ben Hirsch: Yep. And, 

[00:37:42] Rafael Correa: and- I mean, even an attorney too, right? It’s all in development. Like- 

[00:37:45] Ben Hirsch: Yeah. 

[00:37:46] Rafael Correa: I, and I give my attorney credit. I just had a meeting with him, and I do a lot of AI attorney review, and then I send it to him in a kind of more summarized, tighter format.

And, like, he actually appreciates it. He appreciates the things that it highlights, the kind of error checking that it does. And, and I, and I’m grateful for that because if he opposed it, it would be a much different conversation. But to your point earlier, Ben, that I, and I think this is kind of like what interests me is that if I have anybody that’s turning a wrench, like you almost need to be thinking about having somebody that’s following them to understand where their downtime is and what their pain points are.

Because there’s almost a guarantee that there’s a tool that’s gonna… Because at some point or other they’re gonna run across a situation that they don’t know what quite what to do, but somebody else might have that knowledge, right? Oh, now a knowledge base would be really helpful, right? Wouldn’t it?

Where we’ve seen this problem before and this is how we addressed it, right? Could you imagine if there was a knowledge base for the every brand of RV and every scenario that somebody was populating that came from other dealers so that that could like bubble up in a real and material and real time way so that your team would know how to fix an issue that happened, you know, across the country on the same RV?

I don’t know. Maybe that has value. 

[00:38:55] Brian Searl: Why don’t you, you five code that this afternoon, Ben, when you’re done with the show? 

[00:38:59] Ben Hirsch: Well, and, and it’s getting closer and closer, right? Because the more that you can use your own databases and scrape different things and problem cause repairs that are already in the system, plus then go out there and find, you know, YouTube videos and the transcriptions of them, um, the future’s coming.

So I was saying it to some other people just a week ago. I said, “There is a real arms race going on within the dealer side.” I’m, I’m willing to bet it’s going on in every industry, but there’s a real AI arms race going on because you brought it up earlier- If you’re not keeping up with it, then what’s going to happen is you’re gonna be at a competitive disadvantage at some point in the future.

How many months or years? Hard to really know. Depends on the speed, depends if data centers get capped, like, all sorts of things that aren’t in, in our control, but at some point you’re at a competitive disadvantage. You can’t be as affordable to the customer anymore. You don’t have the things that you need to, to keep up.

And then the question is, do you even have the time at that point to then implement these things and be competitive again, or are you so far behind the, you know, the S adoption curve? So this is, this is extraordinary times we’re living through. 

[00:40:03] Rafael Correa: Well, and it’s, and, you know, I don’t know that all hope is lost.

Like, I do think, like, just by… And here’s a perfect example in, like, Staylist and Campspot and some of the tools that they’re building now, is that there was a point in time where I would have to, I felt like I had to build these tools, and now with AI I felt really empowered to build these tools. Well, turns out they’re building some of those tools, and now they’re more accessible to me, and as long as I’m willing to learn and, and- Yeah

accept this idea of maybe a headless PMS system, right? Uh, then I can do anything that I want with that, that I couldn’t maybe do before, which is great if I, everything I have is on Staylist. Like, I still have to create the adaption of, like, I have Staylist, I have KOA, I have Newbook, I have Campspot, right?

Like, these are the reasons why we have to be able to still kind of build the tools behind that. Um, but, like, I guarantee you, like, and if it’s not the dealer management system that you’re on, your DMS today, uh, somebody’s gonna be coming out with a better mousetrap on the DMS side that is then gonna be come and make that available to everyone, right?

So in some scenarios I think you can, you can wait. What’s really important as an organization is you need to identify the scenarios that nobody’s gonna solve for, right? Right. And then attack those problems. 

[00:41:13] Brian Searl: But that’s what you just talked about, Raf. Like, you just gave, like, you, you… Like, it seemed like I was being cavalier to say you go vibe code this, but, like, you can actually do that.

You can’t do it in an afternoon, right? Yeah. You just go, “I can probably do it in a week.” Like, our new VP chatbot that’s gonna come out in a se- in, in, and it’s already being tested on where they rent, right? Um, but it’s, it has a dealer look up for RVs, where you can go in there and you can say, “Here’s the, I don’t remember the length of my RV, but here’s my model,” and it’ll look up a catalog and it’ll tell you the length of your model right in the chat- Yeah

so that we can pick your site and do everything else, right? So all that stuff is very, very, I don’t wanna say easy, ’cause it’s not easy, but it’s absolutely doable today. And that’s where I think- Totally … the leapfrogging ends up happening, is what, what product can I solve, whether that’s me or Michael or Ben or you, Raf, or whatever, what problem can I solve that nobody thinks is a problem right now because they’ve never imagined a solution to it That’s where I think the power is.

[00:42:07] Rafael Correa: Mm-hmm. I mean, that’s-

[00:42:08] Michael Moore: Well, I mean- …

[00:42:08] Rafael Correa: that’s what the future of creativity, like, like, that’s, that’s gonna be what people value in the end, right? Is, like, that, that ability to see it, solve it. 

[00:42:17] Michael Moore: Yeah. Well, and I, for me, I mean, and again, you guys were using an example of a tech. I mean, and that’s, a- again, it’s a perfect example of that.

There’s a, there’s a task to be done, and you can apply this to do that. I’m gonna be really interested to see, you know, when you apply that to campgrounds and operations, you know, obviously that’s gonna free up, like we talked about, a lot of time and a lot of just effort. And so how are campgrounds gonna sort of repurpose that now that they’re able to take care a lot of these tasks that may have taken a lot of time and manpower before, but hey, you know, they’re able to take care of it a fraction of the time.

I’m, I, I’m very curious, and again, it’s already happening, what campgrounds are gonna do with sort of that, that ex- that refocus, if you will. You know, and how are they gonna apply that to the experience, you know? And- I think what I’m- … I think that’s really interesting and exciting because you’re gonna have a lot of different, uh, uh, you know, campgrounds and operations trying things, and it’s gonna be, you know, different no matter where you go and what type of park and what part of the country and stuff like that.

So that’s, again, just more from the campground side for me, that’s the part that I think is very exciting, that this stuff is great to take care of a lot of the mundane. So, you know, what are they gonna do with, with the sort of fun stuff, if you will? 

[00:43:34] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think on a macro level, like, and again, there’s all kinds of different micro ways to do this, but on a macro level I see it splitting into two different ways.

It’s do I actually just get rid of the employees and keep the guest experience the same? Or, and I think this is where it goes with smaller mom-and-pop operators if they’re into hospitality, is now I’ve got time to meet my guests. I don’t have to be stuck behind the desk, so I don’t have to hire other people, but I can make the experience better.

The question I’m interested in, and I’m not gonna put this on you, Raf, but you can tackle it if you want, from the larger players in our industry, does that pressure come to cost cut before it comes to improve the guest experience in an economy that’s uncertain? 

[00:44:12] Rafael Correa: So I think that what I, what I would say is hospitality will almost, I mean, this is, this is Raf speaking, Raf’s opinion, Raf’s theories, right?

Like- 

[00:44:21] Brian Searl: Yep 

[00:44:22] Rafael Correa: I don’t think hospitality can go, you know, Optimus robot or become peopleless. Like, in, at its most fundamental level, hospitality is the sacrifice of your time for someone else’s time, right? Like, at its most basic, you know, primal definition. And so- 

[00:44:38] Brian Searl: 100% agree … 

[00:44:39] Rafael Correa: if somebody’s not creating that sacrifice, right, then is it hospitality, right?

Is the way I kind of look at it. So, but 100%, it’s gonna create more opportunity for relationships, and quite frankly, you know, the way the world is going, we need to find the opportunities where all the waste is, right, all the time waste is. Cut that labor out absolutely, right? And the more a guest can self-serve in a check-in process or whatever, like, you go to McDonald’s now, you don’t go to a checkout c- like, you go to the thing and do, do, do, iPad your order in, and you’re done, right?

And, and that’s the way the world needs to go because for the little amount of labor that I can afford to have on these properties, I need it being extremely guest experience focused, right? Uh, you know, even at the airlines, like, you don’t go to the desk anymore. They make you do, do, do on a screen.

There’s a one person floating around four or five stations, maybe 10 stations, depending how busy it is, and supporting you. Like, that’s the way the world is going. It’s just now we have to then repurpose that labor to where it adds the most value, right? And, and getting s- forms signed and, and, and the silliness of a check-in process and collecting a credit card, that’s not…

That conversation can be very worthwhile in connecting with the guest. “Where are you from? How have you been there?” But, like, that doesn’t require all the busy work, right? And if you can get rid of the busy work and spend the time on like, “Hey, welcome. Let me show you around. Let me give you a tour,” right?

“Let me show you around the campground. You never been here before? Oh my gosh. Have you met this person?” And then now, like, I’m delivering a world-class experience with a different cost structure, and that’s exciting to me. 

[00:46:12] Brian Searl: So I think the most important thing that you said out of all that is who do I blame when the pickles are on my cheeseburger and I don’t want them?

When it was my fault and I have nobody to be accountable for. 

[00:46:22] Rafael Correa: It’s a beautiful thing, buddy. Personal accountability. 

[00:46:25] Brian Searl: I don’t know, man. I don’t, I don’t know if I can handle that, man. Uh, Ben, you were gonna talk, I think. 

[00:46:29] Ben Hirsch: Yeah, businesses have… You know, it’s funny ’cause I’ve been talking internally to our team about this- There’s, there’s two different strategies, and I’m not saying it’s one or the other, ’cause there can be th- you can choose along a spectrum, but there’s a spectrum of strategies, right?

And what AI is doing is it’s making things a little bit more on the extreme of it. So on the one is what you’re talking about, rip the cost out, commoditization strategy. So McDonald’s is definitely leaning into a commoditization strategy. The burger’s the same every time you get it, and if we can rip the humans out, fantastic, right?

And then you have a differentiation strategy, which it’s funny, if you ask your AI, it’s always gonna lead you down, “Go differentiation strategy,” like they’re pre-programmed to think that way. Um, there’s some biases that I’ve read about in articles that’s really kind of funny. So then, but then as a business, you have to ask yourself, okay, you don’t have to go all 100% one or 100% the other, but where do you wanna be on that spectrum?

Do you wanna be the Ritz Carlton dr- driving really differentiated strategy, strategy, all the way to the Red Roof Inn, driving a really commoditized strategy, or somewhere in the middle, and where do you end up? And, um, and then my, my question for a lot of businesses is, is that clear to you, and have you described it internally to your team?

Do you know what strategy you’re actually going after? And so, like, for us as an RV dealer, um, we’ve chosen to be more on the differentiated strategy as a family-owned and operated, not one of the consolidators. That’s just our shtick. And so we do training all the time with our people. We talk about the hospitality moments, you know, those special moments.

Whereas we look at some of our competitors, they’re going more commoditized, and I’m not even saying that’s wrong Market’s gonna call for it. Some customers are gonna want a more commoditized experience when buying and servicing RVs. Okay, have it, right? Like, that’s gonna be your shtick, and that’s what you’re gonna go after.

But I think in th- when you have this much availability of tools and option strategy, and taking that step back and really thinking, “Where am I going? Where am I go-” And I think five years is kind of a pipe dream because AI’s changing it so fast, but where am I at least going the next six to 24 months?

And then what am I building for? I think that’s, like, really key right now. 

[00:48:34] Brian Searl: And it’s one of the hardest things though, too. To- Yes … to Raf’s point, like, uh, it, you know, it’s, uh, I forget what you said exactly, Raf, but, um, you know, figuring out what that strategy is so that you can understand where to go next is really challenging for, I think, a lot of people, especially given the way the technology’s moving so fast.

But even in a normal pre-AI era, it’s figuring where do I go and how do I adapt it, how do I get there? 

[00:48:58] Rafael Correa: Well, and I think that’s, and that’s wh- the tact we’re taking, and I think, Ben, you, you really said it well, kind of which way you to go with it and how you communicate it, because I think it’s important that you communicate with your organization as to kind of the direction and the why and how.

Like, all of those things just help create so much clarity so people can push in the right direction, and that’s, you know, that’s business 101. But specifically around AI, which is just all around us, to not have a position, to not have is i- it’s almost irresponsible, right, at this point in time. And so, like, for us as an organization, because we are a relatively large organization, you know, we are really hyper-focused on the two kind of foundational components.

Like, I’m not trying to build super snazzy tools, uh, that are guest-facing today. Like, I wanna focus on building my data layer. I wanna focus on building my knowledge layer, right? Mm. At a very high level, and I wanna systematize those two functions, right? Because if I, if I have both of those two things, like, that’s the f- that’s the pillars that anything else I ever wanna do gets built off of.

And so that’s the two areas that we’re really, really prioritizing as an organization, is making sure that we understand that. And then we’re also doing a ton of mapping. Like, all the things that we do today, like, it’s insane, like, to think of the number of softwares and applications and systems that all have to interface to make what we do happen.

And when you see it on paper, documenting it, mapping it, which AI does so beautifully and so easily, which was before, like, that’s, like, a giant ask to do that. It’s not a big ask anymore. You can literally have a bunch of interviews, take your s- transcripts, and have it draw it up for you. I mean, it’s, it’s that easy.

But like those are the things that we’re doing to build this foundation because I don’t know where to really spend… I know some areas that it’s very obvious to spend time in, but I know that if I wanna do anything meaningful, like I need to have that in a very good order. 

[00:50:50] Brian Searl: So how do you, and, and maybe the same question to you, Raf, and the same question to you, Michael, and then maybe for the, the typical RV dealer to you, Ben, and then we’ll maybe ask each other questions to close out the show.

If you’re a mom-and-pop campground owner, or not managed by an organization like Blue Water, where do you start? How do you f- where do you start to figure out what your strategy should be with not only all the changes coming at us with AI, but also the economy and everything else? 

[00:51:15] Rafael Correa: I mean, if I’m a campground owner today, I am going to, I’m gonna get a, I’m gonna scoop up a Claude license.

I am going to make sure I can connect it effectively to my accounting system. I’m gonna have it help me do rec- reconciliations. I’m gonna have it analyze my financials for opportunities for spend control. I’m gonna sign up with a tool called Ramp probably, right? For to manage credit card and expense management.

Like, I’m gonna modernize my backend and my financial backend so that I have ultimate visibility as to what I’m spending, what I’m spending it on, and then use that information to then create a tactical strategy to actually refine it, right? Uh, and find the right tools. Because the, if you’re, if you’re not playing with the numbers to start with, and that’s where exactly where I would start, is I would start with that, that backend financial management piece and have that and have Claude be able to be my basically assistant controller helping me figure out opportunities and identify weaknesses in my operation.

[00:52:16] Brian Searl: Michael? 

[00:52:17] Michael Moore: Uh, yeah, I mean, I would probably go even more basic than that. And you know, I, I think, and I think this is true not just obviously in the campground world, but in life in general, that self-awareness is a very underrated trait. Uh, and not everyone has it. Everyone may think they have it, and they may think they know their own business, but they don’t.

And so yeah, I mean, I, I would echo that, meaning use the tools available. A- and again, there’s 100 out there, but something that will really put everything in one place for you. ‘Cause again, if we’re using the mom-and-pop example, as we all know, tho- those folks can be kinda all over the place, and all the knowledge is in their head, and nothing’s written down.

And so I, again, I go even more simple than, than what Raf was saying and make sure that all that is memorialized somewhere so you can even start doing that. ‘Cause again, if you’re running into those campgrounds that have been family-owned and they’ve, they’ve, you know, operated the same way for the last 50 years, um, that, that’s, even that’s gonna be a lot to, to start with.

So you gotta start somewhere, and you just gotta start putting it down and, and just jump in 

[00:53:24] Brian Searl: Ben? 

[00:53:25] Ben Hirsch: You know, it’s like we’re in the same business. ‘Cause as I’m listening to you guys, I’m like, “It’s not that much different for, for a dealer,” right? I mean, yeah, the, like dealers look at us and like, “Oh, well you guys have 50 stores, which is why you can do that.”

But that’s not the reason why. The reason why is ’cause we built a culture at our executive level to really jump in, and we challenge each other to get really good at learning AI, and then doing what you guys are talking about, hooking it up to our systems, analyzing things. Like, like not- Not just waiting for someone else to come out with it.

And it’s funny ’cause you mentioned the, uh, Michael, you mentioned the, uh, um, forget how you said it, but like, you know, everybody basically overestimates, like, the- The self-aware. 

[00:54:04] Michael Moore: Yeah … 

[00:54:04] Ben Hirsch: yeah, the, the, the self-aware. The, the, uh, what’s the study? It’s, like, 80-something percent of people think they’re an above average driver, right?

Yeah. Okay. So it’s human nature. It’s like- 

[00:54:13] Brian Searl: That’s what I thought it was. Yeah. Listen, I’ve been, I drove th- I drove through the Philippines behind the wheel, like, I’m an above average driver. I approve. 

[00:54:20] Rafael Correa: That’s hilarious. 

[00:54:21] Ben Hirsch: Sure. I never For all of us on this call are … think this way, 

[00:54:23] Rafael Correa: but I like it. Right? Yeah.

[00:54:23] Ben Hirsch: Just, just ask us, right? Yeah. We’re all above average drivers. But I mean, that’s the point, right? Like, so, so then to, to your point, Michael, like, do you actually just take the AI the way it is? Do you actually have customized language to make sure it challenges you in your thinking, right? I mean, some people say that my AI’s a little bit of a jerk because I, like, it’s, like, told to challenge me on the thinking.

But then- Right … same thing. I, I’m ver- I’m very supportive of some of the software developers that I’ve seen in the industry because they’re doing what we’re doing internally. But the smaller dealer, I think, is gonna have a hard time just developing as much ’cause they don’t have the team. So there’s a lot of cost-effective software solutions that I see coming out that do things in the dealer space.

I’m sure you guys are seeing the same, but you guys are probably doing it, right, on the, on the, um, on the campground side. And what I would tell the smaller mom and pops, just keep your eyes and ears open. Listen to podcasts. You know, go to the conferences. Like, just ask people what they’re doing. Uh, there’s 20 groups on the dealer side, there’s probably similar things on the campground side.

Like, go to these things and ask the questions and you won’t be left behind, because nobody’s gonna get so far ahead that everybody’s smoked on this. That’s just not gonna happen. Uh, capitalism can be a great thing sometimes, right? So people are gonna compete, they’re gonna develop new things. Keep your ear to the ground.

You can still compete against the, uh, the bigger campground groups, the bigger dealers, because there’s enough people developing out there that it exists. 

[00:55:47] Brian Searl: Yeah, that’s one of the things that most excites me, is there’s no more moat for if you’re the biggest. I mean, let’s pick on Campspot for a second, right?

3,500 campgrounds. Uh, there’s no moat for Campspot anymore, especially when you, as you eloquently pointed out, and I’m not saying, Raf, this, you were intending to, to, to give you this toward Campspot, right? But when every reservation system has a new AI, and they don’t all yet, right? But some of the newer ones do, uh, StayList and, you know, I think CampGuide we’ve talked about before, a few other ones.

CampGuide was on the show last week. Uh, when they, when they can migrate, that’s the biggest hesitation for switching reservation systems, is the hassle of doing that migration. So I’m not saying that means everybody leaves Campspot. Campspot has a great system. I’m just saying it’s another thing to think about.

[00:56:28] Rafael Correa: Well, and it, I think you have to pick your spots, right? Like, this goes back to what I said earlier, is that it, it, does Bluewater get better by- building a PMS system. Like at one point Northgate got better by building Campspot. Like it was the, it was the decision they made that quite frankly gave them a competitive advantage as an organization and then gave birth to that, that software package, right?

And at the time there wasn’t a better tool available, and so they did it. It’s the same reason Blue Water got into the management business. It’s not because we wanted to be third-party managers or wanted to manage assets, like we wanted just to own them and be real estate developers. But we had to, it was like a necessity to get it done.

But for us today to like, you know, build a PMS system and then have to deal with the credit card processing and the features and then every other Tom, Dick, and Harry’s, you know, request for, you know, a feature, like no thank you. Like I-

[00:57:18] Michael Moore: Mm-hmm …

[00:57:19] Rafael Correa: i’m 100% okay and I’d rather be the best campground operator and really focus on the areas where I can, my specific knowledge delivers real outcomes for people.

Like that’s where I wanna stay focused and that’s where I’m picking my spots. 

[00:57:33] Brian Searl: For sure. Uh, Raf, you have any questions for Ben or Michael? 

[00:57:37] Rafael Correa: Michael, am I gonna see you next week? 

[00:57:40] Michael Moore: I live here, brother. I’m here all the time. So- 

[00:57:43] Rafael Correa: I can’t, I can’t wait. I’m coming to your state. I gotta announce it, right? I know.

[00:57:45] Michael Moore: Oh, oh, I’ve been there.

[00:57:45] Rafael Correa: I don’t come over state lines without announcing myself. 

[00:57:48] Michael Moore: Yeah. No, I, it’s 20 minutes up the highway. I’ll, I’ll be there, so. 

[00:57:51] Rafael Correa: Awesome, man. Well, I look forward to seeing you. Yeah. And Ben, it’s, it’s, I’ve, I’ve seen your name in, in many headlines before, so I, uh- … it’s good to meet you in person. 

[00:57:59] Ben Hirsch: Oh. Well, just ignore the ones that aren’t the good headlines.

[00:58:01] Rafael Correa: Yeah. It’s better than those FBI reports, right? 

[00:58:05] Ben Hirsch: Exactly. 

[00:58:06] Brian Searl: Ben, do you have any questions for Raf or Michael? 

[00:58:08] Ben Hirsch: No, I think they’ve been great, guys. 

[00:58:12] Rafael Correa: It’s funny to hear how we’re thinking about AI in two, you know, related but totally different worlds.

[00:58:18] Ben Hirsch: Yeah.

[00:58:19] Rafael Correa: But, and thinking about it in a very similar way. 

[00:58:21] Michael Moore: Uh, I’m gonna credit Brian for that.

He’s bringing the like minds together, so. 

[00:58:27] Brian Searl: Well- 

[00:58:27] Rafael Correa: He has a way of doing that. 

[00:58:30] Brian Searl: Doing my best, man. You guys are the real brains behind everything, so. 

[00:58:34] Rafael Correa: Yeah, I’ll see you tomorrow, next week too, right Brian? 

[00:58:36] Brian Searl: No, I’m not coming, man. 

[00:58:38] Rafael Correa: What? 

[00:58:38] Brian Searl: Yeah, I got too many things I’m building. I’m building two huge things that are gonna change our industry permanently.

They’re bigger than Modern Campground- 

[00:58:45] Rafael Correa: All right …

[00:58:45] Brian Searl: i’m that one.

[00:58:45] Rafael Correa: Well, let me know when you’re ready for, give me a preview. 

[00:58:49] Brian Searl: All right. It’s coming soon, though. But yeah, I’m heads down building. I figured it was a good year to take off ’cause they were in Texas and- 

[00:58:55] Rafael Correa: Oh, geez … yeah. 

[00:58:56] Brian Searl: Not because of Texas, just because it’s usually…

I was telling the guys before it started, I think. Or I was telling somebody earlier today, it’s generally just a little bit less well-attended, uh, outside of the East Coast, so that’s why. 

[00:59:06] Rafael Correa: I think this one’s gonna be a record, um- 

[00:59:09] Brian Searl: I hope so … 

[00:59:10] Rafael Correa: in my, my opinion-

[00:59:10] Brian Searl: If our guests show up, we’ll get to see …

[00:59:11] Rafael Correa: just because I, just mostly because it’s in Texas.

I think that, and the, just the number of campgrounds in Texas are huge, and it’s pretty central, uh, for the West Coast, too. So I will say that the, the advanced ticket purchases have been, uh, above pace of even last year, which was a record. So it’s, uh, I don’t even know if I’m allowed to say that, but…

[00:59:34] Brian Searl: Nobody watching- 

[00:59:34] Michael Moore: I don’t think they’re gonna mind you saying that, so. 

[00:59:36] Rafael Correa: Yeah. 

[00:59:37] Brian Searl: Yeah. 

[00:59:38] Rafael Correa: It’s like telling everybody how- No, I think it’ll be- But, uh, it’s a secret how handsome Brian is, you know? 

[00:59:43] Brian Searl: No. Uh, but yeah, I think, I think it’s gonna be a good show. Like, I was just, it was just one of those things where I’m heads down, and like I, I can get a lot done in three weeks.

I’m not going to KOA either, so, uh, pretty- 

[00:59:54] Rafael Correa: I will be there as well … excited. It’s trade show season. And then I’m coming to Canada. I’m coming to do a Montreal and, uh, and Quebec for, for Thanksgiving this year. We’re going to a place that doesn’t celebrate it. 

[01:00:04] Brian Searl: It’s on the opposite side of, you know. And, and you know, you know that when you get into Canada, our Thanksgiving was actually at the end of the harvest, not-

[01:00:11] Rafael Correa: Yeah

[01:00:11] Brian Searl: just randomly next to a shopping day in November. 

[01:00:15] Rafael Correa: I get it. 

[01:00:15] Brian Searl: Okay. 

[01:00:16] Rafael Correa: You guys have like two months of summer, so. 

[01:00:17] Michael Moore: Hey, restaurants will be open, so. 

[01:00:20] Brian Searl: All right. Final thoughts, Michael, and then, uh, where can they learn more about, uh, AGS or TACO, whatever you wanna talk about? 

[01:00:26] Michael Moore: Yeah, no, this has been great, and, and I, again, it’s the kinda thing that the conversation’s only gonna continue, and I think it’s all good stuff.

So, um, yeah, I mean, with the trade shows, uh, I’ll be there next week at OHI, just kinda, uh, uh, dropping in and visiting folks, uh, on behalf of AGS Guest Guides and then also, uh, the Texas Association of Campground Owners, so welcome to everyone coming to our fine state. 

[01:00:51] Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Michael.

Ben, where can they learn more about Campers Inn, and any final thoughts? 

[01:00:57] Ben Hirsch: Uh, yeah. If, if anybody wants to learn more about it, just go to campersin.com, learn all about us. So that’s it. 

[01:01:05] Brian Searl: And then Raf, last but not least, final thoughts and where can they learn more about Modern 

[01:01:07] Rafael Correa: Campground? Sure. Website is, uh, BWDC, that’s bravowhiskydeltacharlie.com.

Um, and yeah, just final thoughts are, one, uh, make sure you check out the Management Myth series. We’re gonna be dropping that later this week before we head into the trade shows. Come see me, uh, at the trade shows too. I’ll be, I’ll have a- Blue Water will have a booth. And then finally, I just, you know, keep chiming in on this, but like, if you’re…

Don’t be afraid of AI. Jump in there, break stuff, you know, have fun. Make something that is like a throwaway tool. You don’t have to have a master plan, uh, and when you’re getting in there. So just get in there, and one thing will lead to another, but you have to start. So for those people that are still on the fence, just, just get in there.

I’ve even got my parents going down the, the rabbit hole with me now. 

[01:01:55] Brian Searl: Awesome. Well, thank you guys for joining us on another episode of MC Fireside Chat. Scott Bahr and I are off again for Outwired. He’s traveling back from the Canadian conference still. Uh, but he’ll be at OH- I hope he at OHI next week, I think so. Yeah.

[01:02:04] Rafael Correa: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:02:06] Brian Searl: Uh, and, uh, all right, take care. We’ll see you next week, guys. I appreciate you being here. See you. 

[01:02:10] Rafael Correa: See you guys.