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The latest MC Fireside Chats episode featured a lively discussion with glamping entrepreneurs Brian and Ann Konradi of The Yurtopian, industry experts, and technology partners, centering on the importance of unique guest experiences, targeted marketing, and building customer loyalty. The conversation also touched on trends in outdoor hospitality, the balance between technology and personal touch, and the Konradis’ unique decision to raffle off one of their properties.

The August 6th episode of MC Fireside Chats focused on environmental risks and emergency preparedness in outdoor hospitality, sparked by recent flash flooding incidents in Spain and Texas. The panel also discussed industry trends, collaboration between RV dealers and campgrounds, and shared new data pointing to cautious optimism in the RV and camping sectors.

In this special fifth week episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomes three glamping pioneers—from the UK to Costa Rica—for a global look at the evolving outdoor hospitality landscape. The guests dive into everything from guest engagement and winter operations to marketing challenges, AI, and the future of glamping.

In the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl of Insider Perks explores the intersection of marketing, AI, and the campground industry. He’s joined by recurring guests Mychele Bisson of Bison Peak Ventures and Kurtis Wilkins of Rjourney, along with special guests Jeremy Johnson, owner of Kona Hills Campground, and Kieron Wilde of First Nature and Fur Haven. Brian opens the show by welcoming Mychele, who was initially delayed in joining. He then sets the stage by highlighting the show’s focus on marketing and AI, noting the absence of regular guest Greg Emmert due to client commitments. Brian proceeds to introduce Kurtis and Mychele, jokingly stumbling over Mychele’s last name, “Bisson,” which leads to a lighthearted discussion about the pronunciation of French words and Brian’s preference for German. Mychele echoes his sentiment, finding French pronunciation “snotty.” Despite the playful jabs, all agree that French people are “beautiful.” Kurtis Wilkins of Rjourney, who manages and owns 43 campgrounds, speaks first, noting his company’s presence in the industry since 2017. Mychele Bisson then introduces herself as a relative newcomer, having owned six campgrounds from Alaska to Florida for almost two years, and actively growing her portfolio. Brian teases Mychele about potentially owning 800 parks in 16 years, attributing future growth to AI’s impact on systems. Jeremy Johnson, the owner of Kona Hills Campground in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, shares his five-year journey of permitting and entitlements to open his first 80-acre campground with 40 rustic tent camping sites on Lake Superior. He explains that his background in residential real estate investing, coupled with rising housing prices in Marquette, led him to pivot to campgrounds. Jeremy initially envisioned higher-end glamping with cabins but shifted to rustic tent and car camping due to Michigan’s state-level campground licensing requirements for more than two units for short-term stays. He emphasizes the desire to maintain immersion in nature while mindfully adding accommodations. He also shares his positive experiences with car campers, dispelling stereotypes about them being irresponsible, and notes the initial resistance from the local community who feared “homeless people.” Jeremy highlights the inherent demand for his campground due to its proximity to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore and the city of Marquette, both tourism hubs. He exclusively uses direct bookings through Park for reservations, having delisted from Hipcamp due to backend difficulties and communication challenges with self-service operations. Kieron Wilde, owner of First Nature, a destination management company and tour operator for the West Coast of North America, and Fur Haven, a glamping setup, discusses his 18 years in the industry. He explains that First Nature packages experiences with accommodations and attractions, often selling to tour operators. Kieron also shares his personal journey of relocating to the Columbia River Gorge and the permitting challenges he faced with his Fur Haven project, eventually finding a previously permitted Thousand Trails property. His vision for Fur Haven focuses on the mobility of its A-frame units, allowing them to be relocated seasonally to meet demand for events like concerts or large gatherings. Kieron elaborates on the diverse experiences First Nature offers in the Pacific Northwest, ranging from hiking and whitewater rafting to wine country tours and world-class skiing, emphasizing unique, high-level, and custom private experiences. He also highlights his company’s commitment to sustainability and regenerative tourism. The conversation then shifts to the future of the campground industry, particularly the overlooked opportunity for enhancing guest experiences. Mychele expresses her appreciation for the diversity within the industry, noting how different approaches, like Jeremy’s rustic camping or Kieron’s curated experiences, all thrive. She shares an example of her Alaska park, which, despite appearing like a “parking lot,” serves as a base for guests to explore the surrounding natural beauty of Valdez, leading to community-building events like fish fries. Jeremy elaborates on his future plans for Kona Hills, including developing an old rock quarry for ice climbing and leveraging its proximity to extensive mountain biking trails, drawing inspiration from Bentonville’s success. Kurtis chimes in, reinforcing the idea of unique experiences for each Rjourney campground and jokingly blames his unusual quietness on allergies and nearby wildfires in Washington. The discussion then pivots to the impact of AI on marketing and the industry. Brian introduces the new ChatGPT agent, which can perform actions like booking itineraries and checking calendars by connecting to personal data, calling it just the “beginning.” He then mentions Perplexity’s new browser, which runs locally on a computer, emphasizing that the future will involve AI making decisions based on website content without human interaction. Kurtis envisions a future where websites communicate via robust APIs with AI agents, facilitating bookings and reservations. Mychele shares her experience with a prop-AI business that uses AI for cold calling and lead generation, and an AI system called Manus that can book entire trips based on detailed user preferences. She stresses the importance of adapting to AI, noting that “mom and pop” campground owners who resist will be left behind. The panelists discuss the rapid pace of AI development, with Kurtis noting how quickly new technologies become “obsolete.” Mychele highlights the challenge of balancing traditional customer service with AI-driven efficiencies, believing that AI can free up staff to focus on human-centric customer service. Brian plays devil’s advocate, suggesting that even a robot could provide a “human experience” by fulfilling guest needs. The conversation touches on the broader societal implications of AI, including job displacement and the growing wealth gap. They express concern about the lack of public discourse on these issues and the rapid approach of “super-intelligence.” Mychele emphasizes the need for businesses to adapt to AI-driven search and booking methods to remain competitive. The episode concludes with Brian, Mychele, and Kurtis discussing the accelerating pace of AI development and its profound impact on all aspects of life. They muse about a future where humanoid robots could be commonplace and even become integrated into personal relationships. Mychele stresses that businesses must embrace AI to stay relevant, and Kurtis and Brian acknowledge the difficulty of keeping up with the rapid changes. Brian, acknowledging the extended discussion, wraps up the show by thanking his guests and promoting his other podcast, “Outwired,” which will continue the conversation on the future of campgrounds.

On the July 16th episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed back Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality and Sandy Ellingson, a consultant in the RV industry. Robert Preston, founder and CEO of Unhitched RV and Management, joined as a new recurring guest. Angele Miller, owner of Creekside RnR Glamping, and Britt Roth, co-owner of Dark Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah, also joined the discussion. The chat began with introductions. Mike Harrison, COO of CRR Hospitality, explained their focus on owning, managing, and consulting for RV and glamping resorts. He mentioned an upcoming cruise to Alaska from Vancouver. Sandy Ellingson described her primary role as a liaison between the RV industry and campgrounds, leveraging her background in technology and strategy. She enjoys semi-retirement, picking and choosing her clients. Robert Preston introduced Unhitched RV and Management, which owns, operates, and develops RV parks primarily in the Southeast, also offering third-party management and consulting. A significant portion of the discussion revolved around the role of AI in the RV and camping industry. Mike Harrison announced the imminent launch of “Rigsby Live” (soon to be “Campy Live”), an AI voice reservation agent. He believes this will revolutionize the industry by eliminating busy signals and allowing 24/7 reservations, integrating with platforms like CampSpot. He noted that this technology is ahead of even the hotel industry. Brian Searl added that this AI can handle full reservations, check availability, provide site types, and send payment links, aiming to replace standard phone representatives. Robert Preston shared that Unhitched RV primarily uses AI on the backend for data aggregation, particularly for deep dives into rates, comps, and occupancies for acquisitions, as well as for power consumption and utility metering. He acknowledged a deficit of institutionalized data in the RV industry compared to others like multifamily, where CoStar provides vast amounts of detailed information. He emphasized that AI currently helps them gather data quickly, but human interpretation is still crucial for valuable, specific output. Sandy Ellingson expanded on the data challenge, stating that the existing data is often “dirty.” She explained that AI struggles to differentiate between transient, long-term stay, and 55+ RV parks, leading to diluted data when merged. Robert Preston agreed, highlighting the industry’s lack of clear definitions for “campground,” “park,” and “resort,” contributing to poor data quality. Mike Harrison mentioned that OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry) is now actively working to normalize and aggregate data, categorizing campgrounds to help with investment and analytical reflection, and to facilitate tax code changes for REITs. This process is expected to take 12-18 months. The conversation shifted to takeaways from the July 4th holiday weekend and changing camper behaviors. Sandy Ellingson noted the absence of a “norm” in bookings; some parks were anxious about not selling out but then did so last minute, indicating a shrinking booking window. She observed parks offering creative incentives like extended stays with flexible arrival/departure times. Campers, she noted, appreciate the ability to make last-minute decisions. She also highlighted an increasing demand for tent camping and car camping sites, redefining entry-level camping experiences, with expensive, high-tech car setups blurring the lines with traditional RVs. Brian Searl questioned the traditional reluctance of campgrounds to accept tent campers, especially given the evolving nature of camping and the need to be strategic in a more competitive market. Sandy Ellingson used the “roast” analogy to illustrate how outdated practices, like refusing tent campers, persist without understanding their modern evolution. She emphasized that a new generation of campers, including those exploring “gateway drugs” into camping like car camping, needs to be considered. Angele Miller shared that her glamping resort has seen a shift towards more European and Eastern US visitors, remaining fully booked due to being in a highly touristic region with a lack of accommodation. Robert Preston discussed their focus on multi-generational camping, planning new developments to integrate RV sites with cabins or lodging units nearby to accommodate families with varying preferences. He also touched on the current market reality for park owners, noting a shift from the inflated valuations of 2021-2022. Owners are now making decisions to sell, move to third-party management, or continue operating, facing a choice between retaining control and leveraging professional expertise or seeking an exit. He highlighted time, energy, and talent as primary drivers for owners considering third-party management or selling. Mike Harrison added profitability as another key factor, suggesting that professional management can drive more revenue. He acknowledged the “conundrum” for smaller mom-and-pop campgrounds that might find management fees cost-prohibitive. The discussion moved to the acceptance of tent camping in upscale resorts. Mike Harrison stated that CRR Hospitality is not resistant to tent camping and is actively exploring creating dedicated sections for them in larger properties, especially as the market becomes more competitive. He emphasized that tent campers can still be affluent and contribute positively to a campground. Britt Roth from Dark Sky RV Campground shared her experience, initially opening with tent camping but later converting those sites to electric-only due to negative experiences with rudeness, messiness, and demanding behavior from some tent campers. She emphasized creating a “boutique” experience focusing on small rigs, offering amenities like spa-like showers, yoga classes, and goat walks. The concept of customer experience and recurring guests was explored. Angele Miller highlighted that despite increased competition (over 55 glamping resorts in her province compared to three when she started), her resort remains fully booked by focusing on continuous innovation, exceptional customer service, and unique offerings. They streamline check-in with text messages, provide high-quality cooking amenities (Green Egg BBQs), offer hot tubs in every unit, and leverage local partnerships for unique experiences like lobster and oyster deliveries. They also cater to corporate retreats to fill off-peak times and prioritize personalized service, including handwritten welcome notes for returning guests. Robert Preston presented his “four by four” framework for managing properties: the four fundamental needs (safety, cleanliness, friendliness) that must be met, and the four operational buckets (technology, operations, facilities, marketing) to fulfill them. He stressed that while “sizzle” (unique attractions) draws guests once, the fundamentals ensure recurring visits and loyalty. He noted that some of their best-performing parks are not the prettiest but excel in creating a strong sense of community and culture. Mike Harrison echoed this, emphasizing “execute excellently” – getting the basics right for a seamless guest experience and avoiding “distractions.” He also highlighted “experiential hospitality,” leveraging each property’s unique “DNA” and a continuous drive for improvement. The panel also discussed the complexity of mixing different accommodation types like RVs and glamping. While Brian Searl initially suggested it might be harder, Mike Harrison and Robert Preston argued that it’s more about knowing your customer and ensuring the “right fit.” Robert Preston stressed that adding cabins or glamping units significantly changes operational and maintenance requirements, essentially adding different business lines that need to be managed distinctly. Angele Miller shared her decision not to mix glamping with RV/tent sites at her resort, as the clientele for each is vastly different, and introducing tenters could negatively impact the experience for her glamping guests who seek a higher price point and different atmosphere. She noted that national parks are introducing basic “authentic” glamping tents that appeal to a different segment. Sandy Ellingson offered a broader perspective, noting the blurring lines of terminology, where “glamping” can also describe RV camping for some. She believes there’s space for all types of experiences, but emphasized understanding one’s niche. She highlighted the core difference between campgrounds and hotels: the community and relationships built among campers, where guests interact and connect in unique ways not found elsewhere. This community aspect is, for her, the “heart” of the industry. Britt Roth reinforced the idea of “staying in your lane” – focusing on what you do best and are passionate about, and then creating a luxurious experience within that niche, rather than trying to compete on all fronts. The discussion concluded with a consensus that “staying in your lane” doesn’t mean stagnation but rather strategic expansion. As Robert Preston put it, you can “be in multiple lanes, but you can’t go down the road the opposite direction.” Sandy Ellingson clarified that staying in your lane “does not mean no change.” Britt Roth added that it’s about “creating the new lane” and reinventing what RVing or glamping can be, emphasizing the ever-evolving nature of the industry and the magic of creating unique experiences. Brian Searl expressed gratitude to the panelists for their insights.

In the July 9th, 2025 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl and sponsored by Horizon Outdoor Hospitality, a diverse panel of guests discussed key trends and challenges in the outdoor hospitality industry. The recurring guests included Zach Stoltenberg from LJA and Casey Cochran from Campspot, joined by special guests Natalie Binder from Camp V and Josh Hansen and Rebecca Lindblom from Big Rock Creek. The discussion opened with introductions, where Casey Cochran highlighted Campspot’s role as an online reservation and property management system, emphasizing their marketplace for campers. Zach Stoltenberg, an architect, explained LJA Engineering’s work in designing and funding glamping and outdoor hospitality projects, noting he was joining from his cabin in Colorado with a view of Pikes Peak. Natalie Binder then introduced Camp V, a boutique glamping hotel in a restored historic mining town in Colorado, offering a mix of accommodations and an arts nonprofit for events. Josh Hansen described Big Rock Creek, a large glampground and event venue in Wisconsin, detailing their diverse glamping and camping options, alongside a barn for weddings and large events. Rebecca Lindblom, Josh’s sister, also from Big Rock Creek, later joined the conversation, elaborating on their successful Christmas Light Festival. A significant portion of the chat focused on the holiday weekend performance and revenue management. Casey Cochran reported that many campgrounds achieved 100% occupancy over the Fourth of July, highlighting Campspot’s efforts to automate revenue management by analyzing market and historical data. Brian Searl added that even with fewer camper nights, effective Average Daily Rate (ADR) management could still lead to increased revenue, potentially reducing guest issues. The conversation then shifted to disaster preparedness and emergency response, prompted by Zach Stoltenberg’s discussion of recent flooding in Texas that impacted summer camps and RV parks. He underscored the critical importance of having and practicing a disaster plan, citing a camp that avoided casualties due to robust planning. Natalie Binder shared her own harrowing experience with an electrical fire at Camp V, emphasizing that while they had plans, the actual employee reaction during an emergency is unpredictable and highlighted the need for more psychological and trauma-informed training. She also mentioned their strategy of bringing in trusted “outside contractors” for emergency coverage. Zach Stoltenberg suggested drawing lessons from amusement parks and cruise ships that conduct regular, unannounced drills. Josh Hansen acknowledged the difficulty of consistent training due to seasonal staff turnover. When asked about technological solutions, Casey Cochran noted Campspot’s dashboards could identify occupied sites, and while text messaging is useful, legal opt-in requirements limit its immediate impact in emergencies. Zach Stoltenberg also mentioned integrated hardware systems like Point Central that can automate alerts and controls within units. Ultimately, the consensus was that operators should at least start with a basic plan and rehearse it with their staff. The discussion transitioned to diversifying revenue and event-based marketing. Josh Hansen shared Big Rock Creek’s pivot to camping and glamping during COVID-19, accelerating their event business. Rebecca Lindblom highlighted their hugely successful Miracle at Big Rock Christmas Light Festival, which draws tens of thousands of visitors and effectively generates winter revenue while promoting summer offerings. She advised other operators to focus on efficient resourcing and creating social media-shareable photo opportunities. Natalie Binder revealed that Camp V’s Planet V Fest music festival also grew organically from guest enthusiasm and serves as a powerful marketing tool. She also shared how a $2 million state grant helped them build a new event pavilion. Natalie emphasized that for remote destinations like Camp V, relationship marketing and outbound efforts to attract specific groups are crucial, leveraging the property’s unique assets like dark skies. Both Josh Hansen and Natalie Binder agreed on the unpredictable but valuable nature of influencer marketing. Zach Stoltenberg observed that both Big Rock Creek and Camp V exemplify a business model where experiences and events are primary, with accommodations serving as a secondary component. This approach, he noted, naturally leads to higher revenues and creates lifelong customers. Rebecca Lindblom enthusiastically agreed, stating that event attendees often become repeat guests for all their offerings. Brian Searl concluded that prioritizing the experience generally works more in an operator’s favor. Zach Stoltenberg further distinguished the marketing channels for events (targeting HR directors, wedding planners) versus individual accommodation bookings. Natalie Binder reiterated that their success largely comes from grassroots, word-of-mouth, and direct relationship-building. In closing, Brian Searl thanked the guests. Natalie Binder encouraged visits to campv.com. Josh Hansen directed listeners to bigrockcreekwi.com and miracleatbigrock.com, adding a final thought that early-week glamping or camping can be just as enjoyable as weekends. Rebecca Lindblom also expressed appreciation for the discussion. Zach Stoltenberg highlighted the importance of relationships as a wise business strategy, where trust and connection naturally lead to strong business. Brian Searl then promoted his upcoming podcast, “The Campground of the Future,” before concluding the episode.

In the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, the show welcomed a mix of returning guests and a special guest to discuss the evolving landscape of outdoor hospitality and the RV industry. The show, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, delved into various topics including RV sales and consumer behavior, campground occupancy, and international trends. Phil Ingrassia, President of the RV Dealers Association of the US, joined the panel and shared insights from Go RVing’s recent study on RV purchase intentions. He reported that between 60% and 70% of “COVID buyers” (those who purchased RVs between 2020 and 2023) are interested in purchasing RVs again. Ingrassia noted that this figure was higher than his initial expectation of 40% and that the industry is entering a repurchase cycle. He also acknowledged the current macroeconomic issues influencing sales. When asked about the gap between interest and actual purchase, Ingrassia highlighted that the “want to” is present, which offers opportunity. Rafael Correa, President and CFO of Blue Water Hospitality, provided an update on his company’s portfolio of RV resorts. He reported that Blue Water Hospitality is at 104% of the same revenue as last year, attributing this to a significant uptake in long-term and seasonal sales, as well as vacation rentals. He noted a recent surge in transient RV bookings, which had been lagging previously. Correa also observed a shortening of the booking window, with consumers making plans closer to their stay dates due to increased inventory availability and user-friendly booking systems. He emphasized the importance of encouraging people into the RVing lifestyle to maintain industry growth and highlighted the dynamic nature of campground inventory, allowing for shifts to meet consumer demand. Simon Neal, Founder and CEO of Camp Map, offered a European perspective, sharing data from France. He reported a sharp rise in international tourism for Q1 and Q2, driven by neighboring countries and also growth from Canada and China. Summer bookings across the entire tourism sector in France were up 16% from last year. For outdoor hospitality specifically, there was a 1.7% growth in overnight stays. Neal also highlighted that price is the most important factor for 39% of current bookings, with 60% of people wanting to spend less than $1,000 per person on their summer holiday. He mentioned the average site rate per night in Europe is around $60. Scott Bahr, President of Cairn Consulting Group, echoed Phil Ingrassia’s sentiment about consumer interest, stating that it is “sitting out there” and represents an opportunity. He noted that interest is up over last year, though it is not always translating into immediate sales. Bahr suggested that 25% to 30% of interested individuals are holding off due to economic uncertainty and price concerns. He also emphasized that the ability to use an RV (e.g., parking, operating) is a significant barrier for many, particularly for COVID-era buyers, with 40% experiencing operational issues. Bahr asserted that actively using an RV, such as through rentals, has a much higher impact on purchase likelihood compared to staying in a static RV on-site. Susan Brenton, Executive Director of the Arizona Outdoor Hospitality Association, shared insights from Arizona’s market. She noted that hotel rates in areas like Phoenix and Scottsdale are typically higher, with groups paying $200-$225 per night for a hotel. Brenton indicated that her association doesn’t collect specific occupancy or revenue data but shared anecdotal evidence. She highlighted that Canadian travelers, who usually contribute a large influx to Arizona’s RV parks during winter, have an impact on year-round park model rentals. Brenton also discussed legislative issues faced by the association, particularly concerning a growing trend of people living year-round in RVs due to economic factors. She estimated that it’s around 30%, while a tenants’ association claims it’s 50%. This trend has led to legislative challenges, such as a bill requiring landlords to allow air conditioning replacement in RV parks. The discussion also touched on the cost of RV rentals, with Scott Bahr reporting a small towable costing about $275 per night, plus campsite fees, making it over $300 per night. Simon Neal found similar pricing in Europe, with shoulder season rentals around $140 per night and peak season reaching $270 or more for smaller units. Phil Ingrassia acknowledged these prices, stating that they are typical for high-usage seasons, but compared them to the high costs of other recreational activities like cruises or theme parks. Rafael Correa added that $300 a night could be a good deal if traveling with a family, as it might equate to two hotel rooms, and highlighted the added value of campground amenities for families. Rafael Correa further discussed the recent Wall Street Journal article titled “Even Warren Buffett hasn’t fixed the RV industry’s serial breakdowns,” which highlighted quality issues with RV manufacturing. He emphasized that this negative publicity impacts the entire industry. Phil Ingrassia responded by stating that the RV Dealers Association and RV Industry Association are actively working to improve “repair event cycle time” (RECT). He noted that manufacturers have adjusted production levels to match demand, which should naturally lead to quality improvements. Ingrassia also mentioned that manufacturers are investing in new systems, people, and processes to enhance quality, as the industry understands the need to reduce repairs on newer units. The panel discussed the impact of the COVID-era boom on the industry. Rafael Correa reflected on the pre-COVID annual growth rate of camper households, which was around 12%. He suggested that the industry might have been better off maintaining that steady growth rather than experiencing the unprecedented surge during COVID, which caused significant stress on labor and demand. Scott Bahr supported this, stating that a graphic he created shows that “had COVID never happened, the RV industry would be ahead of where we’re at right now based on that trend line”. The conversation concluded with a forward-looking perspective on reducing friction in the outdoor hospitality experience. Rafael Correa emphasized Blue Water’s focus on removing friction for customers making reservations and encouraged the industry to promote the RV and camping lifestyle with the least possible friction. Brian Searl provocatively suggested that in 20 years, self-driving RVs might make the lifestyle more accessible and affordable, allowing more people to experiment with it. The show concluded with a reminder about future episodes and where to find more information about the guests’ organizations.

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, a new focus for the Week 4 show was introduced, shifting away from the RV industry to concentrate on marketing, AI, and technology. Host Brian Searl, CEO of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, opened the show by explaining this new direction and the reshuffling of some recurring guests. He noted that Phil from RVDA of America and Eleonore from RVDA of Canada would now appear on the Week 1 show, which covers data, trends, and analytics. Greg Emmert, the founder of Verio Outdoor Hospitality Consulting, was introduced by Brian, who joked that he was kept on the panel out of pity. Greg then introduced himself and his consulting firm, which helps clients build their operations “strategically and with soul.” He and Brian also made light of the new website Brian’s team is building for his company. Kurtis Wilkins, a new recurring guest from Rjourney RV Resorts and Advanced Outdoor Management, was welcomed to the show. He clarified that he goes by “Kurtis” professionally to distinguish himself from another “Kurtis” in his office. He explained that his company has 41 branded locations and over 12,000 RV pads, with a focus on front-end sales and the monetization of camping. Sam Dagenhard, the founder and CEO of Campfire Ranch, was introduced as a special guest. He described his company as an outdoor hospitality brand based in Gunnison, Colorado, which is building a collection of properties with a focus on “subscale” locations of 30 rooms or less. He said this allows for a high-touch, intimate experience where they can know guests by name. He also stated that his company offers a range of experiences from camping to backcountry trips, always located near prime outdoor recreation spots. Sam later revealed that he grew up RVing and camping and began putting his ideas on paper after moving to Los Angeles, where he found himself limited by state park and national forest campgrounds. He started organizing large, informal group camping trips to places like Joshua Tree, which inspired him to design an ideal campground for his generation. He took a leap in 2019, leaving his job in sports marketing at Red Bull to find his first location, intending to build a brand that would eventually span coast to coast and offer a unique, one-of-a-kind experience. The discussion began with a topic brought up by Kurtis Wilkins, who spoke about the transition from traditional SEO to what his team is calling “AEO,” or AI Engine Optimization. He noted that 13% of search traffic had recently been diverted away from Google, which is a significant change being discussed in many marketing departments. Brian Searl responded by sharing his belief that traditional SEO is “dead” because as AI gets smarter, it will be impossible to “trick” Google. He argued that the new focus should be on providing valuable content that AI systems can easily understand. He then asked Sam Dagenhard about his recent experience with a website redesign and SEO report. Sam said that in the beginning, SEO was all about inserting keywords into copy, which felt “wonky.” He has now learned that other factors like speed and security also play a role. He explained that his company is still young, and their initial website on Squarespace was a prototype for a 17-site campground where SEO happened “by accident.” As his company has grown, they are now transitioning to a more robust website and are in the copywriting phase. He found it interesting to see how much AI was already picking up about his business during a brand discovery audit. He believes it is crucial for his internal team to write the website copy to maintain the authentic, high-touch relationship they have with guests. Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Sam’s starting point, acknowledging that his experience with SEO 10 years ago was the same. He said that good SEO has always been about providing what Google wants and doing it in a structured way. He emphasized the importance of localized content and using backlinks from community groups like the Boy Scouts to build relevance. He noted that his current focus is on creating structured, targeted information, localized to the community and the user searching for it, regardless of their location. He expressed a desire to hear more from Brian on this. Greg Emmert offered a historical perspective on SEO, recalling his first website when people used Yahoo and a “web crawler” for search results. He admitted that he learned little about SEO and was more focused on daily operations like plunging toilets. He stated that his new website, built by Brian’s team, is being tailored for “LLM” (Large Language Model) searches, which he called “AEO,” a term he admitted to stealing from Kurtis. He explained that he is now focused on conversational, narrative-style writing that sounds like he is speaking, which he sees as the future of search. He also mentioned his recent experience with a different consulting company, noting how quickly the SEO landscape has changed in just two years. Brian Searl added to the discussion, emphasizing that everyday people don’t need to be SEO experts but should know enough to ask the right questions of their marketing partners. He suggested using tools like ChatGPT to learn the basics. He reinforced the idea that Google has always wanted websites to write for the user, and providing valuable, easy-to-understand content is key. He cited an example of a client’s property in Arizona, Verde Ranch RV Resort, where a page about bicycle rentals could help them win search queries from users and AI systems looking for that specific amenity in the area. He stressed that a page dedicated to a specific offering is far more powerful than a simple bullet point on an amenities list. Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Brian’s point about providing value, stating that Google’s core function is to be a good recommender for its users. He also mentioned that RV parks are “many businesses in one business,” and each component, from waterparks to gift shops, needs to be optimized for search. He added that “social proof” from reviews and listings also plays an increasingly important role. Brian agreed, highlighting that brand building, press releases, and social media conversations are crucial signals that AI uses to understand a business. Brian then invited Sam to elaborate on how Campfire Ranch got started. Sam explained his lifelong love for the outdoors, starting with RVing with his family. After moving to LA for a career in sports marketing with Red Bull, he felt a gap in the market for a campground designed for his generation. He started organizing group camping trips where he would rent and set up all the gear for friends, realizing the barrier to entry for camping was the equipment itself. This led to his business model, which focuses on providing gear and equipment. He also emphasized the importance of building community, noting he loves when guests line up for the bathroom because it encourages them to talk and make friends. He said that this high-touch approach has also led to partnerships with manufacturers like North Face who provide gear for rentals. He stated that Campfire Ranch is an “RV-free” campground, focusing on tent, car, and van camping. Greg Emmert praised Sam’s business model, calling it “underserved” and noting that car camping is on the rise. He commended Sam’s courage in creating a business that is different from the typical RV park model. Kurtis Wilkins added that while he loves tent campers, many local governments and municipalities prevent RV parks from offering tent camping or “van camping.” Sam replied that Campfire Ranch’s walk-in tent sites are priced at a premium because they offer the best views, proving that if you cater to tent campers and make them feel important, they will come. He said that this intentional design choice comes from understanding what customers want and that it is a great reality check against assumptions. Brian Searl concluded the main discussion by highlighting the difference between a business owner and an entrepreneur, noting the courage it takes to pursue a niche like Sam has. With the hour approaching, the panelists prepared to wrap up. Brian extended an invitation to Sam to become a recurring guest on the show, which Sam accepted. The show ended with Brian encouraging the audience to connect with Sam at Campfire Ranch, Kurtis at Rjourney, and Greg at his new consulting company, Verio. The group signed off, mentioning the upcoming Outwired podcast to discuss credit card fraud and heat safety.

June 18th Episode Recap This episode of MC Fireside Chats, guest-hosted by Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, brought together a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality experts to discuss current trends, challenges, opportunities, and the unique aspects of their respective properties. The discussion highlighted the varied experiences within the campground industry, from long-standing family businesses to niche, destination-focused operations, and the ongoing impact of external factors like legislation and economic shifts. Mike Harrison, Chief Operating Officer of CRR Hospitality, introduced himself and his company, which owns, manages, and consults on outdoor hospitality assets. He expressed excitement about guest hosting and noted the show’s weekly rotation of panelists and topics, covering trends, markets, challenges, and opportunities. Jeff Hoffman, a founder of Camp Strategy, a consulting firm for campgrounds, shared his extensive experience, revealing he has owned his current campground since 1968, making him the most tenured in the group. His firm offers services from due diligence and feasibility studies to coaching for profitability. Kaleigh Day, owner of Surf Junction Campground in Ucluelet, BC, described her unique, forested property located near the Pacific Rim National Park Reserve. Her campground features traditional tenting and partially/full-service sites, along with amenities like hot tubs, a sauna, flush toilets, and hot showers. A key differentiator is her surf school, operating out of the national park, alongside surf rentals, a general store, and a coffee shop. The campground has about 90 campsites across 72 acres, utilizing about 40, keeping the rest wild. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction’s revenue model relies on a “trifecta” of camping, surf lessons, and surf rentals. Keeping camping prices relatively low helps attract more campers, especially in the shoulder season, with additional revenue generated from add-ons like coffee, merchandise, and crucially, surf lessons and rentals, often bundled in packages. She noted that the surf school builds community and loyalty, with campers returning annually and bringing friends and family. Kaleigh’s family acquired the pre-existing Surf Junction 13 years ago when it was smaller, and they have since expanded the offerings and visibility of the surf school. She highlighted the campground’s destination appeal, being a five-and-a-half-hour journey from Vancouver, involving a ferry and a long, winding road, meaning visitors specifically choose to come to them. Reservations open in January and are typically full for the summer by June. Stephen Saint Fort, owner of Fort Welikit Campground in Custer, South Dakota, described his 22-acre property just outside Custer, near Custer State Park and Black Hills National Forest. His campground has 100 sites, with 71 being RV sites ranging from 30-amp water and electric to 50-amp pull-throughs. A unique feature is that no two sites are alike, and the campground is heavily treed, with deer and turkey frequently seen. Stephen proudly introduced their “Camping barrels,” unique sleeping cabins that look like giant whiskey barrels, special-ordered from Norway. These barrels offer a mattress, electricity, a light, and a fan, positioned close to a bathhouse, and guests bring their own bedding. He decided to offer them as a more affordable, single-night option than full-service cabins, and they have been unexpectedly popular. Jeff Hoffman then discussed a concerning legislative trend in Ohio, where a bill could allow county commissioners to take two-thirds of bed tax revenue for discretionary use, rather than for the visitors bureau. He shared his experience on his county’s visitors bureau, which grew from $250,000 to $4 million in revenue, and now faces demands from the county. Mike Harrison echoed these concerns, citing similar issues in Arizona where a proposed five-point bed tax increase would make a small town’s taxes among the highest in the state, potentially driving visitors to less expensive, more developed cities. Both stressed the importance of industry involvement in local, state, and national associations to combat unregulated changes that could negatively impact properties. Jeff further illustrated this point with his personal experience building a bathhouse, which saw costs nearly double due to unexpected Ohio building codes for commercial structures, contrasting it with Stephen’s experience with barrels in the Dakotas where zoning might be less stringent. The conversation shifted to summer travel trends. Kaleigh Day noted an increase in bookings, especially in the shoulder season, with more Canadians staying within Canada and a significant rise in European visitors, particularly Germans and Dutch, who often rent RVs in the Rockies and finish their trips on Vancouver Island. She observed that tighter budgets might be leading more people to choose camping over expensive resorts. Stephen Saint Fort reported a slow May due to cold and rain. While his Canadian bookings seemed on track, he noted an influx of cancellations from Quebec specifically, but other provinces were still booking. His international bookings are higher, partly attributed to switching to an online booking company, Firefly, which simplifies the process for international travelers. The discussion also touched on the shrinking booking window, which both Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman confirmed has decreased by 20-30% year-on-year, leading to more last-minute bookings. This trend suggests shorter, closer-to-home vacations. Stephen Saint Fort, however, observed that while his bookings are fewer, the average length of stay has increased from 4-5 nights to 6-7 nights, indicating guests are staying longer to explore the many attractions in the Black Hills. Kaleigh Day, conversely, prefers shorter stays (2-3 days) to maximize surf rental and lesson opportunities. The unique identities and diverse markets of campgrounds were emphasized. Stephen Saint Fort highlighted the variety even within Custer, with 55 campgrounds within 15 miles, each catering to different guest needs, such as those prioritizing satellite TV over treed sites. Mike Harrison underscored the diversity not only in market but also in sophistication, contrasting Stephen’s recent adoption of online booking with his own properties’ long-standing reliance on it. He mentioned ongoing efforts to classify campgrounds by category to nationalize data for better trend analysis. The panelists then discussed the prevalence of RV rentals. Kaleigh estimated that perhaps a third to half of their RV guests are in rentals, particularly Europeans, and noted a new trend of locals Airbnbing their trailers and motorhomes. Stephen estimated around 10% of his guests use rentals, often international travelers using companies like Cruise America, and also locals through RV Share. Mike Harrison identified a significant industry gap in connecting RV renters directly with campgrounds for destinations. Stephen shared his strategy of building relationships with local RV Share owners and delivery drivers, who then recommend his campground. Jeff Hoffman concurred, noting the RV rental market is relatively new (about four years old) and stressed the need for RV share operators to understand that their renters must still adhere to campground rules. The conversation briefly veered into sports rivalries, with Kaleigh from Seattle (Seahawks fan), Stephen from Pittsburgh (Steelers fan), and Jeff from Ohio (Browns fan), adding a lighthearted moment. Mike Harrison then steered the discussion to strategies for boosting revenues. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction diversifies revenue by heavily promoting surf lessons and rentals, incentivizing staff to upsell, and increasing marketing spend when sales are low. Stephen Saint Fort, benefiting from the self-selling Black Hills area, promotes his campground by attending travel shows and being involved with tourism organizations, noting an influx of visitors from states where he’s attended shows. He also works on improving their social media presence and collaborating with local influencers. Jeff Hoffman advised new parks to use industry data to identify their specific market niche and consider hiring marketing firms for deep dives. For established campgrounds like his, he explained that growth is harder, now aiming for 8% rather than 10-15%. They target marketing efforts to attendees of camping shows within a three-hour drive and leverage Google Ads. As a KOA partner, his campground benefits from national marketing, allowing them to focus locally, including marketing to visitors of nearby attractions like Cedar Point amusement park and new sports facilities. In their parting words, Stephen Saint Fort thanked everyone, reiterated the diversity of campgrounds, and offered Kaleigh advice. Jeff Hoffman also expressed gratitude, emphasized that “every campground’s different,” and offered his consulting services for initial chats without cost. Kaleigh Day found it “awesome” to chat with fellow campground operators, appreciating the insights and camaraderie within their niche career. Mike Harrison concluded by thanking all guests for their time and passion, highlighting the amazing opportunities and community within the outdoor hospitality industry.