Episodes

Week 1 - Industry Trends & Insights

Each first Wednesday of the month, we dive into the latest trends, market analysis, and predictions in the outdoor hospitality industry. Join industry analysts, market researchers, and outdoor hospitality industry leaders as they unpack topics like market growth, demographic changes, and guest preferences.

January 7, 2026

MC Fireside Chats –January 7th, 2026

The January 7 episode of MC Fireside Chats launched 2026 with host Brian Searl and a diverse international panel discussing RV show season expectations, cautious market forecasts, and shifting consumer behavior across North America and the UK. The conversation highlighted shorter booking windows, strategic pricing approaches, and the growing importance of data, amenities, and collaboration in navigating an uncertain but opportunity-filled year ahead.
December 3, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – December 3rd, 2025

The MC Fireside Chats episode on December 3rd, 2025, synthesized market data showing cautious incremental growth for the RV industry in 2026 alongside a major shift towards profitable group and event-based travel, driven by older millennials. Experts stressed that global glamping and campground operators must now adopt sharp B2B strategies, focus intensely on delivering perceived value over discounting, and prepare to monetize mega-events like the World Cup to ensure market survival.
November 5, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – November 5th, 2025

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, guest host Scott Bahr, along with Simon Neal, Rafael Correa, and Brian Searl, dissected key takeaways from major industry conferences, including SETT in France and the Jellystone/Sun Communities event. The panel explored the contrasting focus on guest experience in the European market versus the US, emphasizing that delivering “value” and quality hospitality is the new core priority for all outdoor resorts amidst rising consumer expectations.
October 1, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – October 1st, 2025

The MC Fireside Chats episode, recorded live at the Glamping Show USA, featured host Brian Searl and a diverse panel discussing the industry’s maturation, the disruptive opportunities presented by AI and personalized guest technology, and the significant impact of the new Marriott Outdoor brand. The conversation highlighted a strong focus on building sustainability and conservation into the core business model, with experts urging operators to view these efforts as a value driver rather than just a regulatory cost.
September 3, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – September 3rd, 2025

On the September 3rd episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry leaders discussed the glamping and RV markets, noting a late summer surge in consumer demand and highlighting the importance of differentiation through unique accommodations and guest experiences, as well as the value of data and innovation in outdoor hospitality.
August 6, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – August 6th, 2025

The August 6th episode of MC Fireside Chats focused on environmental risks and emergency preparedness in outdoor hospitality, sparked by recent flash flooding incidents in Spain and Texas. The panel also discussed industry trends, collaboration between RV dealers and campgrounds, and shared new data pointing to cautious optimism in the RV and camping sectors.
July 2, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – July 2nd, 2025

In the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, the show welcomed a mix of returning guests and a special guest to discuss the evolving landscape of outdoor hospitality and the RV industry. The show, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, delved into various topics including RV sales and consumer behavior, campground occupancy, and international trends. Phil Ingrassia, President of the RV Dealers Association of the US, joined the panel and shared insights from Go RVing’s recent study on RV purchase intentions. He reported that between 60% and 70% of “COVID buyers” (those who purchased RVs between 2020 and 2023) are interested in purchasing RVs again. Ingrassia noted that this figure was higher than his initial expectation of 40% and that the industry is entering a repurchase cycle. He also acknowledged the current macroeconomic issues influencing sales. When asked about the gap between interest and actual purchase, Ingrassia highlighted that the “want to” is present, which offers opportunity. Rafael Correa, President and CFO of Blue Water Hospitality, provided an update on his company’s portfolio of RV resorts. He reported that Blue Water Hospitality is at 104% of the same revenue as last year, attributing this to a significant uptake in long-term and seasonal sales, as well as vacation rentals. He noted a recent surge in transient RV bookings, which had been lagging previously. Correa also observed a shortening of the booking window, with consumers making plans closer to their stay dates due to increased inventory availability and user-friendly booking systems. He emphasized the importance of encouraging people into the RVing lifestyle to maintain industry growth and highlighted the dynamic nature of campground inventory, allowing for shifts to meet consumer demand. Simon Neal, Founder and CEO of Camp Map, offered a European perspective, sharing data from France. He reported a sharp rise in international tourism for Q1 and Q2, driven by neighboring countries and also growth from Canada and China. Summer bookings across the entire tourism sector in France were up 16% from last year. For outdoor hospitality specifically, there was a 1.7% growth in overnight stays. Neal also highlighted that price is the most important factor for 39% of current bookings, with 60% of people wanting to spend less than $1,000 per person on their summer holiday. He mentioned the average site rate per night in Europe is around $60. Scott Bahr, President of Cairn Consulting Group, echoed Phil Ingrassia’s sentiment about consumer interest, stating that it is “sitting out there” and represents an opportunity. He noted that interest is up over last year, though it is not always translating into immediate sales. Bahr suggested that 25% to 30% of interested individuals are holding off due to economic uncertainty and price concerns. He also emphasized that the ability to use an RV (e.g., parking, operating) is a significant barrier for many, particularly for COVID-era buyers, with 40% experiencing operational issues. Bahr asserted that actively using an RV, such as through rentals, has a much higher impact on purchase likelihood compared to staying in a static RV on-site. Susan Brenton, Executive Director of the Arizona Outdoor Hospitality Association, shared insights from Arizona’s market. She noted that hotel rates in areas like Phoenix and Scottsdale are typically higher, with groups paying $200-$225 per night for a hotel. Brenton indicated that her association doesn’t collect specific occupancy or revenue data but shared anecdotal evidence. She highlighted that Canadian travelers, who usually contribute a large influx to Arizona’s RV parks during winter, have an impact on year-round park model rentals. Brenton also discussed legislative issues faced by the association, particularly concerning a growing trend of people living year-round in RVs due to economic factors. She estimated that it’s around 30%, while a tenants’ association claims it’s 50%. This trend has led to legislative challenges, such as a bill requiring landlords to allow air conditioning replacement in RV parks. The discussion also touched on the cost of RV rentals, with Scott Bahr reporting a small towable costing about $275 per night, plus campsite fees, making it over $300 per night. Simon Neal found similar pricing in Europe, with shoulder season rentals around $140 per night and peak season reaching $270 or more for smaller units. Phil Ingrassia acknowledged these prices, stating that they are typical for high-usage seasons, but compared them to the high costs of other recreational activities like cruises or theme parks. Rafael Correa added that $300 a night could be a good deal if traveling with a family, as it might equate to two hotel rooms, and highlighted the added value of campground amenities for families. Rafael Correa further discussed the recent Wall Street Journal article titled “Even Warren Buffett hasn’t fixed the RV industry’s serial breakdowns,” which highlighted quality issues with RV manufacturing. He emphasized that this negative publicity impacts the entire industry. Phil Ingrassia responded by stating that the RV Dealers Association and RV Industry Association are actively working to improve “repair event cycle time” (RECT). He noted that manufacturers have adjusted production levels to match demand, which should naturally lead to quality improvements. Ingrassia also mentioned that manufacturers are investing in new systems, people, and processes to enhance quality, as the industry understands the need to reduce repairs on newer units. The panel discussed the impact of the COVID-era boom on the industry. Rafael Correa reflected on the pre-COVID annual growth rate of camper households, which was around 12%. He suggested that the industry might have been better off maintaining that steady growth rather than experiencing the unprecedented surge during COVID, which caused significant stress on labor and demand. Scott Bahr supported this, stating that a graphic he created shows that “had COVID never happened, the RV industry would be ahead of where we’re at right now based on that trend line”. The conversation concluded with a forward-looking perspective on reducing friction in the outdoor hospitality experience. Rafael Correa emphasized Blue Water’s focus on removing friction for customers making reservations and encouraged the industry to promote the RV and camping lifestyle with the least possible friction. Brian Searl provocatively suggested that in 20 years, self-driving RVs might make the lifestyle more accessible and affordable, allowing more people to experiment with it. The show concluded with a reminder about future episodes and where to find more information about the guests’ organizations.
June 4, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – June 4th, 2025

In the previous episode of MC Fireside Chats on June 4, 2025, host Brian Searl welcomed guests including recurring contributors Rafael Correa, President and CFO of Blue Water; Simon Neal, founder of Camp Map; and Scott Bahr from Cairn Consulting Group. A special guest for the session was Jayne Cohen, founder and CEO of Campground Consulting Group and its sister company, Glamping Consulting Group, who—despite Brian’s playful jest about her youth—celebrated her 50th year in the industry. The discussion immediately turned to pressing industry concerns when Rafael Correa highlighted a recent Baltimore Sun report about Raystown Lake in Pennsylvania. Camping at this large Army Corps-run recreational lake was reportedly shut down due to staffing cuts linked to “Doge inefficiency efforts.” This closure significantly impacted local businesses, with some experiencing a 40-50% downturn over Memorial Day weekend, underscoring the ripple effects of such decisions on local economies and the potential risks to state and national park accessibility. Scott Bahr elaborated on this, noting an “enthusiasm gap” among potential guests stemming from a “dark cloud” over national parks, citing news of over 5,000 anticipated staff layoffs. He differentiated this concern from purely economic anxieties, explaining that while people understand macroeconomic pressures, they are more deterred by factors that diminish the on-the-ground experience. The perception that staff cuts will lead to a lesser experience weighs more heavily on travel decisions than economic factors alone, creating a cumulative negative effect. The conversation then explored whether park closures and staff shortages or broader economic concerns were more heavily influencing camper behavior. Rafael shared a contrasting experience from Blue Water’s home base in Ocean City, Maryland. Despite initial concerns about federal government layoffs and return-to-office mandates affecting their key feeder markets (DC, Northern Virginia, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh), their properties were experiencing significant growth. He attributed this to the affordability of outdoor hospitality and Ocean City’s appeal as a blue-collar, drive-to beach destination, suggesting that economic uncertainty might be playing to their strengths. Scott Bahr concurred, emphasizing the advantage of drive-to destinations, as people are likely opting for shorter, less uncertain trips. Jayne Cohen, drawing on her extensive industry experience, supported these observations. She noted that during economic uncertainty, travelers prioritize accessible, easily cancellable, and affordable options, bringing back the “150-mile sweet spot” for travel distances, reminiscent of 2019 trends. She asserted that camping remains an affordable vacation choice, often driven more by desired location and activities than by price alone. Campers, she argued, can tailor their trips to their budgets, perhaps by forgoing restaurant meals if campsite fees are higher in a preferred area. The discussion then shifted to the crucial concept of value proposition in camping. Rafael emphasized that it’s not just about affordability but the overall value, including amenities like water parks and organized activities not typically found at budget hotels. Jayne Cohen added that, in her experience, the most expensive sites, like waterfront ones, often book up first precisely because of their perceived value, offering experiences that would be significantly more costly in other accommodation types. Brian Searl underscored the necessity for campgrounds, especially independent ones, to effectively communicate this value through their marketing efforts. Exploring how to communicate this value, Rafael stressed the importance of visual storytelling – high-quality lifestyle photos and videos that allow potential guests to imagine themselves at the property. He also advocated for leveraging micro-influencers and the authenticity of Facebook Lives to connect with audiences. Simon Neal explained how Camp Map contributes by providing accurate, realistic digital maps that reduce uncertainty and build excitement, allowing guests to explore site-specific photos and amenities before booking. Jayne Cohen reiterated the power of professional photography and the need for websites to evoke an emotional connection and stand out from competitors by offering a unique, experiential feel rather than a generic listing of facilities. A practical discussion arose about how independent owners, often short on time and resources, can implement these marketing strategies. Rafael suggested tapping into the inherent talents of existing staff, particularly younger employees who are often social media savvy. Jayne Cohen agreed, emphasizing that owners deeply involved in daily operations rarely have the time for dedicated marketing, making it essential to delegate these tasks, even if not on a full-time basis. Scott Bahr provided data backing this, stating that for about three-quarters of campers, pictures are the most important consideration when choosing a destination. Simon Neal then shared fascinating observations from his recent travels in the US, comparing American campgrounds to their European counterparts. He found similarities in the arrival/check-in experience, site hookup quality, and general landscaping. However, significant differences emerged: US campgrounds are overwhelmingly RV-focused (around 90% RV sites vs. a 50/50 RV/tent split in Europe), leading to different amenity needs like fewer, less elaborate bathhouses. A key distinction he noted was in cabin design. European cabins, he observed, tend to make more efficient use of space and higher quality materials, whereas US cabins often have wasted space and lack thoughtful details like adequate storage. Rafael acknowledged this, noting that Blue Water’s sister company, Great Outdoor Cottages, is part of an evolution towards more efficient European-style cabin design in the US, moving away from simply replicating home comforts to optimizing the smaller footprint. The conversation pivoted to the overarching importance of hospitality and the human touch. Jayne Cohen expressed concern that the rise of online check-ins and automated gates, while efficient, could diminish personal interaction. She stressed the critical need for staff and managers to be present on the grounds, welcoming guests and fostering relationships. Brian Searl concurred, noting how even a simple handwritten note from a hotel manager can be impactful. Rafael framed it as an opportunity: technology that reduces check-in friction frees up staff time for more value-added, personal interactions. Scott Bahr provided compelling data: KOA surveys revealed that a memorable interaction with a manager or owner could increase a guest’s Net Promoter Score (NPS) by at least 15 points, highlighting this as a key driver of loyalty and return visits. Rafael further elaborated that the deep relationship between a long-term owner and their guests is a significant factor—and a potential risk—when acquiring a campground, as it’s nearly impossible to replicate that personal bond at scale, though Blue Water strives for this through exceptional General Managers. Jayne Cohen added that positive personal interactions make guests more forgiving of minor issues and more open to providing constructive feedback. Rafael concluded this segment by saying that effectively addressing problems when they arise is a prime opportunity to build trust and gain a customer for life. Simon Neal noted that while his check-in experiences in the US were positive, he hadn’t observed the same level of GM visibility in European campgrounds, suggesting a potential area for differentiation. As the session concluded, each guest offered final thoughts. Jayne Cohen thanked Brian for the invitation and the enjoyable experience. Simon Neal expressed positivity about the industry’s current state. Rafael Correa described his outlook for the season as “cautiously optimistic,” eager to establish a new baseline and highlighting the preparedness of the Blue Water team. Scott Bahr announced upcoming research on camper attitudes and behaviors, to be released via KOA. Brian Searl wrapped up by thanking the guests and previewing his next “Outwired” show, which would discuss the future of PMS software, marketplaces, and the impact of AI on bookings and content authenticity.
May 7, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – May 7th, 2025

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl led a comprehensive discussion on the evolving landscape of the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The episode featured recurring guests, industry experts who appear regularly on the show, and special guests who brought specific insights to the conversation. Recurring guests Scott Bahr, Simon Neal, and Mark Koep offered their perspectives on current trends and challenges. Mark Koep, in particular, focused on the growing influence of Artificial Intelligence (AI) and its implications for marketing strategies within the industry. He argued that traditional methods, such as relying heavily on Google search, may become less effective as AI-driven search results gain prominence. Brian Searl expanded on this point, noting the increasing sophistication of AI and its capacity to generate synthetic data, which could further disrupt established online business models. The guests emphasized the importance of campground owners and operators staying informed about AI and adapting their strategies to remain competitive. The discussion then shifted to the physical aspects of campgrounds, with Scott Bahr raising questions about the trend towards developing very large RV parks. He expressed concern about their long-term sustainability and whether they might become obsolete like shopping malls. This sparked a broader conversation about the ideal size and design of campgrounds, with panelists weighing the benefits of large-scale operations against the appeal of more intimate, niche-focused experiences. Mary Arlington, a special guest with extensive experience in the campground industry, shared her insights on this topic. She acknowledged the existence of very large parks but emphasized that many successful campgrounds focus on creating a strong sense of community and catering to specific customer needs. Another special guest, Brian Linton, contributed to the discussion by providing a perspective from the glamping sector. He explained that glamping sites, which often involve more luxurious accommodations than traditional camping, can be economically viable even with a smaller number of sites. Linton also highlighted the importance of storytelling and creating engaging content to attract guests. Simon Neal, a recurring guest from Europe, offered a different viewpoint, describing the European campground market and its unique characteristics. He noted the prevalence of seasonal travel and the trend towards investing in high-quality amenities to enhance the guest experience. Neal also discussed the concept of organizing campgrounds into distinct “neighborhoods” to cater to diverse preferences. The episode also explored ancillary revenue streams for campgrounds, such as pet-related services. Guests shared ideas for offering pet amenities and products to enhance the customer experience and generate additional income. Furthermore, the panelists considered the potential impact of emerging technologies like VR and AR on the outdoor hospitality industry. While acknowledging that these technologies are unlikely to replace traditional camping experiences, they discussed their potential for marketing and attracting new customers. Finally, Mary Arlington took the opportunity to introduce “Rivers and Rockies,” a new association serving campground owners in several states. She explained its mission to provide localized support and address the specific needs of park owners in the region. Throughout the episode, host Brian Searl guided the discussion and encouraged the guests to share their expertise and insights. The conversation provided valuable information and perspectives for campground owners, operators, and anyone interested in the future of the outdoor hospitality industry.

Recurring Guests

Scott Bahr

Scott Bahr

Cairn Consulting Group
Simon Neal

Simon Neal

CampMap
Miguel Huerta

Miguel Huerta

Mexican Glamping Association
Rafael Correa

Rafael Correa

Blue Water Development
Eleonore Hamm

Eleonore Hamm

RVDA Canada
Phil Ingrassia

Phil Ingrassia

RVDA
Michael Moore

Michael Moore

Texas Association of Campground Owners (TACO)

Week 2 - Building Park Value

The second Wednesday of the month focuses on how to build and evaluate park equity physically, operationally, and financially. With insights from designers, operational experts, active park owners, and valuation specialists, this episode covers physical master planning, strategic amenity investments, revenue generation, market valuation, and how to maximize the price your property commands when it’s time to sell.

September 9, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – September 9th, 2026

During the September 9, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry leaders and the owners of Prairie Junction RV Resort highlighted how shifting the focus from basic accommodations to hyper-curated, themed guest experiences—supported by low-cost experiential amenities, modernized technology, and a deeply empowered staff—can drive massive guest loyalty and operational success.
August 12, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – August 12th, 2026

In the August 12, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry leaders emphasized that as the outdoor hospitality market faces softening transient RV demand and rising financial pressures, operators must strategically adapt their accommodation mixes and relentlessly prioritize genuine guest connections to maintain profitability.
July 8, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – July 8th, 2026

In the July 8, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts explored strategies for thriving in the evolving outdoor hospitality market, emphasizing the success of targeting underserved niches, the practical necessity of grid-tied infrastructure over off-grid setups, and the profitability of pivoting to high-value, curated group retreats.
June 10, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – June 10th, 2026

The June 10th, 2026 episode of MC Fireside Chats highlights how outdoor hospitality operators can actively drive occupancy by leveraging targeted social media content, hyper-specific buyer personas, and AI-discoverable local features. The panel also addresses tightening macroeconomic trends, concluding that operators must double down on proactive marketing to capture travelers shifting from costly flights to road trips.
May 13, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – May 13th, 2026

Hosted by Brian Searl, this episode of MC Fireside Chats featured Jeremy Johnson and Zach Stoltenberg discussing the complexities of dynamic pricing and the industry’s shift toward non-RV accommodations. Meanwhile, special guests Travis Chambers and Joy de Vos highlighted the growing demand for experiential travel by sharing their unique, immersive projects—ranging from cinematic, off-grid micro-resorts to educational, working dairy farms.
April 8, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – April 8th, 2026

The April 8th, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats featured industry leaders discussing the critical balance between implementing highly intuitive automated tech and preserving the authentic outdoor experience. The panel highlighted actionable strategies for maximizing revenue and tax benefits through premium cabin investments, while navigating upcoming challenges in Class A fire regulations, site-specific architectural design, and ADA accessibility.
March 11, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – March 11th, 2026

Host Brian Searl led an industry-focused discussion with experts Jayne Cohen, Casey Cochran, Jeremy Johnson, Shawn Verbrugghe, and Serg Mashkov to explore how economic shifts, luxury accommodation trends, and unique experiential programming are redefining the future of outdoor hospitality.
February 12, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – February 12th, 2026

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, Joe Duemig hosts John McMahon of Camp Door County, who shares how his new resort uses “intentional” guest experiences like mushroom foraging, stargazing, and mountain bike trails to build a unique brand identity. The panel, including Casey Cochran and Zach Stoltenberg, discusses how these curated activities and strategic local partnerships drive transient demand and guest loyalty without relying solely on traditional amenities or aggressive price discounting.
January 14, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – January 14th, 2026

The first Guest Experience episode of MC Fireside Chats in 2026 brought together U.S. and UK industry leaders to examine land use economics, guest segmentation, and how differing markets approach revenue, design, and experience. The panel agreed that future growth depends less on uniform luxury builds and more on aligning amenities, add-on revenue, and immersive, nature-driven experiences with clearly defined guest expectations, supported by smarter use of data.

Recurring Guests

Tom Mason, IVEE Group

Tom Mason

IVEE Group
Zach Stoltenberg, Clockwork

Zach Stoltenberg

Clockwork

Landan Dory

North Star Brokerage & Advisory

Jayne Cohen, Campground Consulting Group

Jayne Cohen

Campground Consulting Group

Scott Foos, Horizon Outdoor Hospitality

Scott Foos

Horizon Outdoor Hospitality
Jeremy Johnson, Kona Hills Campground

Jeremy Johnson

Kona Hills Campground
Kaleigh Day, Surf Junction Campground

Kaleigh Day

Surf Junction Campground

Week 3 - Business Operations and Management

On the third Wednesday, we tackle the operational side of running a successful campground. This episode features operations consultants and experts discussing strategies for staff management, technology integration, and maintaining profitability while navigating challenges.

December 17, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – December 17th, 2025

In this final episode of 2025, host Brian Searl and a panel of industry experts review the year’s milestones, discussing advancements in market data, product innovations, and the rising popularity of immersive agrotourism. The group also engages in a lively debate on leveraging AI for marketing and photography, ultimately predicting that 2026 will be a pivotal year defined by unique guest experiences and renewed occupancy growth.
November 19, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – November 19th, 2025

The special episode of MC Fireside Chats was hosted live by Brian Searl at the KOA Convention in Raleigh, North Carolina, on November 19, 2025. The panel—Matt Stovold, Gwyn Wathen, Ryan McPeek, Camille McPeek, Samantha Chipperfield, and Mike Harrison—discussed conference takeaways, networking, cabin ROI, and their plans for leveraging AI and revenue management in 2026. The conversation also explored franchise support, KOA’s community, unique campground activities, and sustainable development, with each guest sharing their personal insights on the outdoor hospitality industry.
October 15, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – October 15th, 2025

The latest MC Fireside Chats episode, featuring host Brian Searl, Scott Foos, and guests Sangeetha Ramkumar and Hannah Terry, synthesized insights on the outdoor hospitality market’s major shifts, including the new NEC code and the Marriott Outdoor Collection. The central discussion focused on how operators must balance high-end design and efficiency (Dunya Camp) with unique, activity-driven experiences on smaller, working farms (Wildwoodland Retreat) to achieve profitability and meet evolving guest expectations.
September 17, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – September 17th, 2025

During the MC Fireside Chats, host Rafael Correa and guests Jeff Hoffman, Mike Harrison, and Sandy Ellingson discussed the state of the outdoor hospitality industry, covering the slow 2025 season, the importance of innovation in technology and marketing, and the controversial shift towards long-term stays. The panel also debated the challenges of attracting new campers and the need for the industry to adapt its business models to remain competitive.
August 20, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – August 20th, 2025

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts discussed new tax benefits for campground owners and RV buyers, the importance of focusing on guest experience over simply adding amenities, and the crucial role of technology and strategic planning in business growth.
July 16, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – July 16th, 2025

On the July 16th episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed back Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality and Sandy Ellingson, a consultant in the RV industry. Robert Preston, founder and CEO of Unhitched RV and Management, joined as a new recurring guest. Angele Miller, owner of Creekside RnR Glamping, and Britt Roth, co-owner of Dark Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah, also joined the discussion. The chat began with introductions. Mike Harrison, COO of CRR Hospitality, explained their focus on owning, managing, and consulting for RV and glamping resorts. He mentioned an upcoming cruise to Alaska from Vancouver. Sandy Ellingson described her primary role as a liaison between the RV industry and campgrounds, leveraging her background in technology and strategy. She enjoys semi-retirement, picking and choosing her clients. Robert Preston introduced Unhitched RV and Management, which owns, operates, and develops RV parks primarily in the Southeast, also offering third-party management and consulting. A significant portion of the discussion revolved around the role of AI in the RV and camping industry. Mike Harrison announced the imminent launch of “Rigsby Live” (soon to be “Campy Live”), an AI voice reservation agent. He believes this will revolutionize the industry by eliminating busy signals and allowing 24/7 reservations, integrating with platforms like CampSpot. He noted that this technology is ahead of even the hotel industry. Brian Searl added that this AI can handle full reservations, check availability, provide site types, and send payment links, aiming to replace standard phone representatives. Robert Preston shared that Unhitched RV primarily uses AI on the backend for data aggregation, particularly for deep dives into rates, comps, and occupancies for acquisitions, as well as for power consumption and utility metering. He acknowledged a deficit of institutionalized data in the RV industry compared to others like multifamily, where CoStar provides vast amounts of detailed information. He emphasized that AI currently helps them gather data quickly, but human interpretation is still crucial for valuable, specific output. Sandy Ellingson expanded on the data challenge, stating that the existing data is often “dirty.” She explained that AI struggles to differentiate between transient, long-term stay, and 55+ RV parks, leading to diluted data when merged. Robert Preston agreed, highlighting the industry’s lack of clear definitions for “campground,” “park,” and “resort,” contributing to poor data quality. Mike Harrison mentioned that OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry) is now actively working to normalize and aggregate data, categorizing campgrounds to help with investment and analytical reflection, and to facilitate tax code changes for REITs. This process is expected to take 12-18 months. The conversation shifted to takeaways from the July 4th holiday weekend and changing camper behaviors. Sandy Ellingson noted the absence of a “norm” in bookings; some parks were anxious about not selling out but then did so last minute, indicating a shrinking booking window. She observed parks offering creative incentives like extended stays with flexible arrival/departure times. Campers, she noted, appreciate the ability to make last-minute decisions. She also highlighted an increasing demand for tent camping and car camping sites, redefining entry-level camping experiences, with expensive, high-tech car setups blurring the lines with traditional RVs. Brian Searl questioned the traditional reluctance of campgrounds to accept tent campers, especially given the evolving nature of camping and the need to be strategic in a more competitive market. Sandy Ellingson used the “roast” analogy to illustrate how outdated practices, like refusing tent campers, persist without understanding their modern evolution. She emphasized that a new generation of campers, including those exploring “gateway drugs” into camping like car camping, needs to be considered. Angele Miller shared that her glamping resort has seen a shift towards more European and Eastern US visitors, remaining fully booked due to being in a highly touristic region with a lack of accommodation. Robert Preston discussed their focus on multi-generational camping, planning new developments to integrate RV sites with cabins or lodging units nearby to accommodate families with varying preferences. He also touched on the current market reality for park owners, noting a shift from the inflated valuations of 2021-2022. Owners are now making decisions to sell, move to third-party management, or continue operating, facing a choice between retaining control and leveraging professional expertise or seeking an exit. He highlighted time, energy, and talent as primary drivers for owners considering third-party management or selling. Mike Harrison added profitability as another key factor, suggesting that professional management can drive more revenue. He acknowledged the “conundrum” for smaller mom-and-pop campgrounds that might find management fees cost-prohibitive. The discussion moved to the acceptance of tent camping in upscale resorts. Mike Harrison stated that CRR Hospitality is not resistant to tent camping and is actively exploring creating dedicated sections for them in larger properties, especially as the market becomes more competitive. He emphasized that tent campers can still be affluent and contribute positively to a campground. Britt Roth from Dark Sky RV Campground shared her experience, initially opening with tent camping but later converting those sites to electric-only due to negative experiences with rudeness, messiness, and demanding behavior from some tent campers. She emphasized creating a “boutique” experience focusing on small rigs, offering amenities like spa-like showers, yoga classes, and goat walks. The concept of customer experience and recurring guests was explored. Angele Miller highlighted that despite increased competition (over 55 glamping resorts in her province compared to three when she started), her resort remains fully booked by focusing on continuous innovation, exceptional customer service, and unique offerings. They streamline check-in with text messages, provide high-quality cooking amenities (Green Egg BBQs), offer hot tubs in every unit, and leverage local partnerships for unique experiences like lobster and oyster deliveries. They also cater to corporate retreats to fill off-peak times and prioritize personalized service, including handwritten welcome notes for returning guests. Robert Preston presented his “four by four” framework for managing properties: the four fundamental needs (safety, cleanliness, friendliness) that must be met, and the four operational buckets (technology, operations, facilities, marketing) to fulfill them. He stressed that while “sizzle” (unique attractions) draws guests once, the fundamentals ensure recurring visits and loyalty. He noted that some of their best-performing parks are not the prettiest but excel in creating a strong sense of community and culture. Mike Harrison echoed this, emphasizing “execute excellently” – getting the basics right for a seamless guest experience and avoiding “distractions.” He also highlighted “experiential hospitality,” leveraging each property’s unique “DNA” and a continuous drive for improvement. The panel also discussed the complexity of mixing different accommodation types like RVs and glamping. While Brian Searl initially suggested it might be harder, Mike Harrison and Robert Preston argued that it’s more about knowing your customer and ensuring the “right fit.” Robert Preston stressed that adding cabins or glamping units significantly changes operational and maintenance requirements, essentially adding different business lines that need to be managed distinctly. Angele Miller shared her decision not to mix glamping with RV/tent sites at her resort, as the clientele for each is vastly different, and introducing tenters could negatively impact the experience for her glamping guests who seek a higher price point and different atmosphere. She noted that national parks are introducing basic “authentic” glamping tents that appeal to a different segment. Sandy Ellingson offered a broader perspective, noting the blurring lines of terminology, where “glamping” can also describe RV camping for some. She believes there’s space for all types of experiences, but emphasized understanding one’s niche. She highlighted the core difference between campgrounds and hotels: the community and relationships built among campers, where guests interact and connect in unique ways not found elsewhere. This community aspect is, for her, the “heart” of the industry. Britt Roth reinforced the idea of “staying in your lane” – focusing on what you do best and are passionate about, and then creating a luxurious experience within that niche, rather than trying to compete on all fronts. The discussion concluded with a consensus that “staying in your lane” doesn’t mean stagnation but rather strategic expansion. As Robert Preston put it, you can “be in multiple lanes, but you can’t go down the road the opposite direction.” Sandy Ellingson clarified that staying in your lane “does not mean no change.” Britt Roth added that it’s about “creating the new lane” and reinventing what RVing or glamping can be, emphasizing the ever-evolving nature of the industry and the magic of creating unique experiences. Brian Searl expressed gratitude to the panelists for their insights.
June 19, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – June 18th, 2025

June 18th Episode Recap This episode of MC Fireside Chats, guest-hosted by Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, brought together a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality experts to discuss current trends, challenges, opportunities, and the unique aspects of their respective properties. The discussion highlighted the varied experiences within the campground industry, from long-standing family businesses to niche, destination-focused operations, and the ongoing impact of external factors like legislation and economic shifts. Mike Harrison, Chief Operating Officer of CRR Hospitality, introduced himself and his company, which owns, manages, and consults on outdoor hospitality assets. He expressed excitement about guest hosting and noted the show’s weekly rotation of panelists and topics, covering trends, markets, challenges, and opportunities. Jeff Hoffman, a founder of Camp Strategy, a consulting firm for campgrounds, shared his extensive experience, revealing he has owned his current campground since 1968, making him the most tenured in the group. His firm offers services from due diligence and feasibility studies to coaching for profitability. Kaleigh Day, owner of Surf Junction Campground in Ucluelet, BC, described her unique, forested property located near the Pacific Rim National Park Reserve. Her campground features traditional tenting and partially/full-service sites, along with amenities like hot tubs, a sauna, flush toilets, and hot showers. A key differentiator is her surf school, operating out of the national park, alongside surf rentals, a general store, and a coffee shop. The campground has about 90 campsites across 72 acres, utilizing about 40, keeping the rest wild. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction’s revenue model relies on a “trifecta” of camping, surf lessons, and surf rentals. Keeping camping prices relatively low helps attract more campers, especially in the shoulder season, with additional revenue generated from add-ons like coffee, merchandise, and crucially, surf lessons and rentals, often bundled in packages. She noted that the surf school builds community and loyalty, with campers returning annually and bringing friends and family. Kaleigh’s family acquired the pre-existing Surf Junction 13 years ago when it was smaller, and they have since expanded the offerings and visibility of the surf school. She highlighted the campground’s destination appeal, being a five-and-a-half-hour journey from Vancouver, involving a ferry and a long, winding road, meaning visitors specifically choose to come to them. Reservations open in January and are typically full for the summer by June. Stephen Saint Fort, owner of Fort Welikit Campground in Custer, South Dakota, described his 22-acre property just outside Custer, near Custer State Park and Black Hills National Forest. His campground has 100 sites, with 71 being RV sites ranging from 30-amp water and electric to 50-amp pull-throughs. A unique feature is that no two sites are alike, and the campground is heavily treed, with deer and turkey frequently seen. Stephen proudly introduced their “Camping barrels,” unique sleeping cabins that look like giant whiskey barrels, special-ordered from Norway. These barrels offer a mattress, electricity, a light, and a fan, positioned close to a bathhouse, and guests bring their own bedding. He decided to offer them as a more affordable, single-night option than full-service cabins, and they have been unexpectedly popular. Jeff Hoffman then discussed a concerning legislative trend in Ohio, where a bill could allow county commissioners to take two-thirds of bed tax revenue for discretionary use, rather than for the visitors bureau. He shared his experience on his county’s visitors bureau, which grew from $250,000 to $4 million in revenue, and now faces demands from the county. Mike Harrison echoed these concerns, citing similar issues in Arizona where a proposed five-point bed tax increase would make a small town’s taxes among the highest in the state, potentially driving visitors to less expensive, more developed cities. Both stressed the importance of industry involvement in local, state, and national associations to combat unregulated changes that could negatively impact properties. Jeff further illustrated this point with his personal experience building a bathhouse, which saw costs nearly double due to unexpected Ohio building codes for commercial structures, contrasting it with Stephen’s experience with barrels in the Dakotas where zoning might be less stringent. The conversation shifted to summer travel trends. Kaleigh Day noted an increase in bookings, especially in the shoulder season, with more Canadians staying within Canada and a significant rise in European visitors, particularly Germans and Dutch, who often rent RVs in the Rockies and finish their trips on Vancouver Island. She observed that tighter budgets might be leading more people to choose camping over expensive resorts. Stephen Saint Fort reported a slow May due to cold and rain. While his Canadian bookings seemed on track, he noted an influx of cancellations from Quebec specifically, but other provinces were still booking. His international bookings are higher, partly attributed to switching to an online booking company, Firefly, which simplifies the process for international travelers. The discussion also touched on the shrinking booking window, which both Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman confirmed has decreased by 20-30% year-on-year, leading to more last-minute bookings. This trend suggests shorter, closer-to-home vacations. Stephen Saint Fort, however, observed that while his bookings are fewer, the average length of stay has increased from 4-5 nights to 6-7 nights, indicating guests are staying longer to explore the many attractions in the Black Hills. Kaleigh Day, conversely, prefers shorter stays (2-3 days) to maximize surf rental and lesson opportunities. The unique identities and diverse markets of campgrounds were emphasized. Stephen Saint Fort highlighted the variety even within Custer, with 55 campgrounds within 15 miles, each catering to different guest needs, such as those prioritizing satellite TV over treed sites. Mike Harrison underscored the diversity not only in market but also in sophistication, contrasting Stephen’s recent adoption of online booking with his own properties’ long-standing reliance on it. He mentioned ongoing efforts to classify campgrounds by category to nationalize data for better trend analysis. The panelists then discussed the prevalence of RV rentals. Kaleigh estimated that perhaps a third to half of their RV guests are in rentals, particularly Europeans, and noted a new trend of locals Airbnbing their trailers and motorhomes. Stephen estimated around 10% of his guests use rentals, often international travelers using companies like Cruise America, and also locals through RV Share. Mike Harrison identified a significant industry gap in connecting RV renters directly with campgrounds for destinations. Stephen shared his strategy of building relationships with local RV Share owners and delivery drivers, who then recommend his campground. Jeff Hoffman concurred, noting the RV rental market is relatively new (about four years old) and stressed the need for RV share operators to understand that their renters must still adhere to campground rules. The conversation briefly veered into sports rivalries, with Kaleigh from Seattle (Seahawks fan), Stephen from Pittsburgh (Steelers fan), and Jeff from Ohio (Browns fan), adding a lighthearted moment. Mike Harrison then steered the discussion to strategies for boosting revenues. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction diversifies revenue by heavily promoting surf lessons and rentals, incentivizing staff to upsell, and increasing marketing spend when sales are low. Stephen Saint Fort, benefiting from the self-selling Black Hills area, promotes his campground by attending travel shows and being involved with tourism organizations, noting an influx of visitors from states where he’s attended shows. He also works on improving their social media presence and collaborating with local influencers. Jeff Hoffman advised new parks to use industry data to identify their specific market niche and consider hiring marketing firms for deep dives. For established campgrounds like his, he explained that growth is harder, now aiming for 8% rather than 10-15%. They target marketing efforts to attendees of camping shows within a three-hour drive and leverage Google Ads. As a KOA partner, his campground benefits from national marketing, allowing them to focus locally, including marketing to visitors of nearby attractions like Cedar Point amusement park and new sports facilities. In their parting words, Stephen Saint Fort thanked everyone, reiterated the diversity of campgrounds, and offered Kaleigh advice. Jeff Hoffman also expressed gratitude, emphasized that “every campground’s different,” and offered his consulting services for initial chats without cost. Kaleigh Day found it “awesome” to chat with fellow campground operators, appreciating the insights and camaraderie within their niche career. Mike Harrison concluded by thanking all guests for their time and passion, highlighting the amazing opportunities and community within the outdoor hospitality industry.
May 21, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – May 21st, 2025

The May 21st, 2025 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, convened a panel of esteemed recurring and special guests to delve into pivotal topics within the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The familiar voices joining the conversation included Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, a company focused on owning and operating luxury upscale RV and glamping resorts, as well as providing third-party consulting. Ali Rasmussen, co-founder of Spacious Skies Campgrounds, which owns and operates campgrounds along the East Coast from Maine to Georgia, also returned, expressing enthusiasm for the upcoming season. Rounding out the recurring panel was Jeff Hoffman from Camp Strategy, a consulting firm dedicated to helping campground owners achieve profitability. This episode welcomed two special guests. Heidi Doyle from Utility Supply Group (USG) introduced her company as a key electrical distributor for the outdoor hospitality sector, serving RV parks, campgrounds, marinas, and glamping resorts. Heidi emphasized USG’s commitment to not just supplying products but also ensuring safety and compliance by actively working with the National Electric Code and UL standards for power outlets. The second special guest was Jim Omstrom, co-founder of Open Road Resorts. Jim shared that Open Road Resorts owns a growing portfolio of campgrounds across the United States, including locations near Dallas, Santa Fe, West Yellowstone, and Omaha, with a focus on acquiring and developing more properties. Before diving into the special guest segments, Brian prompted the recurring panelists for any pressing industry topics. Mike Harrison immediately highlighted the continued and accelerating growth of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the camping sector. He referenced a recent generational camping report indicating that 30% of campers have already used AI for search, a figure expected to rise to 75% in the coming years. Mike stressed the importance for industry players to stay ahead of the curve as generative search and Google’s prioritization of AI are set to revolutionize how campers find and book their stays. Jeff Hoffman echoed Mike’s sentiments, noting the rapid learning capabilities of AI and its daily improvements, particularly when actively trained. Ali Rasmussen added her experience, mentioning a demo she encountered built within ChatGPT that functioned as an itinerary and trip planner for one of their campground locations, showcasing the practical applications of AI for enhancing guest services. Beyond AI, Ali Rasmussen, also a board member of OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry), brought a critical legislative issue to the forefront: the Credit Card Competition Act. She explained that this bipartisan bill aims to address the duopoly of Visa and MasterCard, which has led to escalating credit card swipe fees – a significant expense for campground owners, often ranking in their top five operational costs. Ali detailed the unique impact on campgrounds, where multiple transactions (booking, changes, cancellations, re-bookings) can incur non-refundable swipe fees, even when guests are refunded. Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman shared that they had previously lobbied in Washington D.C. on this very issue, underscoring its importance. They urged listeners to visit OHI’s social media pages for links to contact their representatives and voice their support for the act, emphasizing that it affects all businesses accepting credit cards, not just RV parks. Heidi Doyle mentioned that for Utility Supply Group’s larger transactions, credit card fees are often passed on to the customer, while smaller orders’ fees are absorbed. Brian acknowledged the pervasiveness of these fees, even with third-party payment systems. The conversation then shifted to a deeper dive with the special guests. Heidi Doyle elaborated on Utility Supply Group’s long-standing presence in the industry, noting their 26-year history initiated by Wade Elliot. She explained USG’s unique approach of primarily connecting with customers through trade shows and conferences rather than traditional advertising, valuing their loyal customer base. A core philosophy for USG, instilled by Wade, is to be a resource and ensure customers get the right products, especially for those new to the industry or specific electrical components. Heidi highlighted their expertise in the National Electric Code and NFPA 1194, positioning USG as more than just a seller. Key products offered include pedestals, surface mount boxes, distribution panels, transformers, wire, site amenities like lighting, and increasingly, solutions for EV charging. She also discussed the growing importance of electrical metering (sub-metering) to help campgrounds recoup utility expenses and encourage conservation, differentiating between “dumb” meters requiring manual reads and “smart” meters that integrate with reservation systems. Jeff Hoffman inquired about the potential for USG to develop water metering solutions, to which Heidi responded that while they offer basic water meters, USG currently focuses on electrical distribution and is not primarily a software developer, though they are aware of companies like Wild Energy exploring integrated solutions. Next, Jim Omstrom shared the origin story of Open Road Resorts, which began as a “midlife crisis” entrepreneurial venture with his business partner, Chase, around 2018. Leveraging their backgrounds in public equity investment and a shared passion for the outdoors, they acquired their first park in Dallas. After a pause and operational refinement during the COVID-19 pandemic, Open Road Resorts partnered with consumer private equity fund L Catterton, RV manufacturer THOR Industries (owner of Airstream and Jayco), and two other family offices to fuel their growth. Jim articulated that the brand “Open Road Resorts” aims to address the inconsistent experiences often encountered in the RV park industry. While each park retains its unique local feel, the goal is to provide a consistently clean, safe, highly amenitized, and family-friendly environment with excellent customer service. When Brian asked about the 10-year vision, Jim stated the focus is on continued brand building, team expansion, and acquiring great parks to build a national network. Discussing operational approaches, Jim explained their model of having a General Manager at each park who reports to a central operations team. This sparked a broader discussion among the multi-park operators. Ali Rasmussen shared Spacious Skies Campgrounds’ journey, from initially attempting a model where regional managers also managed a home campground, to their current structure of three regional directors overseeing GMs and reporting directly to her. They’ve intentionally trimmed layers to maintain control and efficiency. Jeff Hoffman emphasized the importance of building a solid foundational structure for scalability, noting that while technology like cloud-based PMS and accounting systems has made remote management easier, finding the right people remains the biggest challenge. Mike Harrison added that there’s no one-size-fits-all operational model, and what works depends on the specific properties, revenue, and stage of growth, sharing that CRR Hospitality also pivots its structure based on circumstances. Ali Rasmussen then queried Jim Omstrom about the unique partnership with THOR Industries. Jim explained their pre-existing relationship with THOR’s management team from their public equity days. When Open Road Resorts decided to accelerate growth, they approached THOR, who saw an opportunity to strategically partner and help shape the campground experience, potentially testing new concepts. As an example, Jim mentioned an “Airstream-only” section, or “camp Airstream,” being piloted at their West Yellowstone park. This led to a discussion about the RVIA Campground Coalition’s efforts to foster communication between manufacturers and campground owners, particularly concerning the increasing size and electrical demands of new RVs, and how campgrounds, especially older ones, can keep pace with infrastructure needs. Heidi Doyle noted that, as of 2022, THOR had no immediate plans for 100-amp RVs, which would require new electrical pedestal designs. The final major topic was the significant advancements in AI search, spurred by recent Google I/O announcements. Brian presented a short video showcasing Google’s new “AI Mode,” a complete re-imagining of search that moves beyond the traditional 10 blue links to a personalized, generative AI-driven experience. This mode will allow for longer, more complex queries and even enable “agents” like Project Mariner to perform tasks on the user’s behalf, including making purchases. Brian stressed that this will dramatically impact how campgrounds are discovered and booked, affecting website traffic (likely decreasing overall traffic but increasing conversion rates of qualified leads) and user interaction. Heidi Doyle asked about the implications for keywords and search strategies. Brian explained that the shift is towards longer, conversational queries, and that AI itself will increasingly interpret and refine user intent, making traditional keyword targeting less relevant. The focus, he advised, should be on high-quality content, user experience, site architecture (like schema markup), and brand trust signals (like press releases and social mentions). Jim Omstrom inquired if anyone was exploring “AI SEO,” to which Mike Harrison and Brian confirmed they were actively working on these strategies, emphasizing that a blend of traditional SEO and new AI-focused approaches is currently necessary. The discussion highlighted the personalized nature of AI search results, with different users receiving different recommendations based on their implicit and explicit preferences, making foundational website best practices even more critical. As the episode concluded, each guest provided their final thoughts and where listeners could learn more about their respective organizations. Heidi Doyle directed listeners to Utility Supply Group’s presence in Woodall’s and their social media. Ali Rasmussen pointed to spaciousskiescampgrounds.com and their social channels, mentioning their current exciting phase of seeking new partners. Jeff Hoffman invited inquiries through campstrategy.com. Jim Omstrom encouraged visits to openroadresorts.com for information on their parks. Brian Searl wrapped up the show, thanking his guests and promoting his other podcast, Outwired, which would further delve into AI announcements and RV park guest demographics.
April 16, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – April 16th, 2025

April 16th Episode Recap The episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks, convened a diverse panel of industry professionals including recurring guests Jeff Hoffman (Camp Strategy), Mike Harrison (CRR Hospitality), and Sandy Ellingson (Industry Liaison/Consultant), alongside special guests Kurtis Wilkins (Private Equity Analyst, Rjourney), Jennifer L. Grissom (Co-Owner, Crystal River KOA), and Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen (Owner, ARK@Denali Campground Resort). The comprehensive discussion explored crucial aspects of the outdoor hospitality sector, focusing on operational strategies, the interpretation of market data, adapting to consumer shifts, and navigating the increasing trend of institutional investment. Brian Searl opened the show by introducing the panel and highlighting recent technological advancements from Insider Perks. He announced the rollout of Rigsby, their AI voice chatbot, which is now capable of handling reservations via chat and is soon expected to offer voice reservation capabilities. Brian emphasized that this innovation is poised to be a significant disruptor in the industry, providing 24/7 booking options and eliminating common issues like busy signals, acknowledging that early adoption may involve a testing phase. The conversation quickly turned to industry data, prompted by insights drawn from the KOA North American Camping Report. Sandy Ellingson shared her positive takeaways, noting substantial increases in camping households and high retention rates among campers who began during the pandemic. She also highlighted encouraging growth in specific accommodation types, such as a significant rise in tent usage. However, Sandy expressed concern that some parks were limiting tent camping, which she sees as a vital “onboarding” method for introducing younger generations to camping, and advocated for viewing tent and car camping as strategic tools. Providing additional perspective on the data, Mike Harrison and Kurtis Wilkins cautioned against solely comparing current figures to 2019 (pre-pandemic) growth, which naturally saw a massive surge. While acknowledging continued overall interest, they stressed the importance of analyzing recent year-over-year changes and noted signs of potential headwinds, including recent nationwide dips in consumer activity in Q1 and April. Kurtis specifically highlighted that Rjourney is observing tighter booking windows, making forecasting more challenging despite no overall drop in bookings. A key theme discussed was the need for campgrounds to adapt to the evolving consumer. Mike Harrison pointed out that demographic data in some CRR Hospitality resorts shows a nearly equal distribution across age groups (Baby Boomers to Gen Z), necessitating varied marketing strategies across different platforms to reach each segment effectively. He and Kurtis Wilkins stressed the importance of adopting “experiential hospitality” to make stays a lifestyle experience and utilizing technology for simple enhancements, not just complex systems, to cater to the modern traveler. Kurtis Wilkins emphasized that understanding each park’s specific demographic and location is crucial for effective microtargeting in marketing efforts, noting that even regional terminology like “campground” versus “RV park” matters. He stressed the critical need for operators to closely monitor operational data such as pace reports, leads, and conversion rates at a granular level to identify demographic shifts and pivot strategies quickly in response to market changes, including those influenced by external factors. Jennifer L. Grissom shared her firsthand experience as a new owner/developer of the Crystal River KOA, which opened recently. She spoke about the success of her first year, exceeding initial projections, but also highlighted the operational challenges posed by the current narrow booking window that complicates forecasting. Jennifer discussed her surprise regarding the volume of tent campers and the lessons learned about pricing and managing that segment, noting that higher price points sometimes attract specific demographics like elderly individuals seeking facility access. She strongly emphasized the invaluable support the KOA franchise provides through established operating systems, marketing, and brand recognition for a park of her size. Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen introduced her unique and ambitious project, ARK@Denali Campground Resort in Alaska. Describing herself as a visionary builder, Yo’EL is developing the property to leverage its unparalleled view of Mount Denali. She detailed her strategy to operate year-round, which is uncommon in Alaska, partly driven by a personal mission to provide a place of light and community during the long winter months. Yo’EL outlined diversified revenue streams beyond traditional RV sites, including capitalizing on tour bus traffic with a heated viewing deck and other amenities, and mentioned exploring funding options like USDA loans and phased development to include workforce housing for quicker revenue generation. The increasing trend of institutional investment and the entry of major hotel brands into the outdoor hospitality space were significant points of discussion. Kurtis Wilkins highlighted Rjourney’s recent success securing a CMBS loan that included transient revenue, a first of its kind, which he believes will pave the way for other RV parks to access similar institutional financing. Mike Harrison discussed how this trend, combined with potential future online distribution platforms for campgrounds, is professionalizing the industry, suggesting that independent parks must embrace “operational excellence” and differentiate themselves effectively to compete, a point echoed by Jeff Hoffman on finding one’s niche. Concluding the chat, Kurtis Wilkins used a memorable analogy: technology is the car, and data are the windows – you need the right tech systems (the car) but also need to look at your data (the windows) to know where you’re going. He called for more collective data sharing across the industry to better understand and compete in the evolving market. The overall sentiment was one of dynamic change, with significant opportunities for parks willing to adapt, understand their guests and market, and leverage technology and data to enhance operations and guest experience. Brian Searl invited listeners to continue the data discussion on his other podcast, Outwired.

Recurring Guests

Jeff Hoffman, Camp Strategy

Jeff Hoffman

Camp Strategy
Sandy Ellingson, RV Industry Advisor

Sandy Ellingson

RV Industry Advisor
Mike Harrison, CRR Hospitality

Mike Harrison

CRR Hospitality
Angele Miller, Creekside RnR Glamping

Angele Miller

Creekside RnR Glamping
Robert Preston, Unhitched Management

Robert Preston

Unhitched Management
Casey Cochran, Campspot

Casey Cochran

Campspot
John McMahon, Camp Door County RV Resort & Campground

John McMahon

Camp Door County RV Resort & Campground

Week 4 - Marketing, AI, and Technology

The fourth Wednesday of the month covers the latest tools and marketing strategies driving innovation in outdoor hospitality. Guests include marketing pros, AI experts, and tech providers exploring personalized marketing, smart technologies, digital engagement, and data-driven operations.

September 23, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – September 23rd, 2026

During the September 23, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts emphasized that campground operators should embrace artificial intelligence to automate backend data and marketing workflows, ultimately saving time and boosting revenue while keeping the technology invisible to preserve genuine, human-to-human hospitality.
August 26, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – August 26th, 2026

During the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts agreed that while the rapid evolution of artificial intelligence and its use in marketing continues to spark debates over authenticity, its greatest value in outdoor hospitality lies in automating backend operations so staff can focus on delivering exceptional, human-to-human guest experiences.
June 24, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – June 24th, 2026

In the June 24, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts Matt Whitermore, Scott Lengel, and Craig Alsup discussed the urgent need for campground owners to embrace artificial intelligence and smart technologies. The panel highlighted how economic pressures and evolving consumer expectations are making digital innovation and operational efficiency essential for long-term survival in the outdoor hospitality market.
May 27, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – May 27th, 2026

In the May 27, 2026 episode of MC Fireside Chats, Brian Searl, Cara Csizmadia, and Amber Simpson discussed the urgent need for campgrounds to adopt AI and adapt to changing Google search behaviors despite valid environmental reservations. The panel also emphasized that leaning on hyper-local marketing strategies and trusted industry partners is essential for operators to successfully navigate current economic headwinds and lower transient occupancy rates.
April 22, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – April 22nd, 2026

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, Brian Searl and his guests discuss how AI serves as an invisible intelligence layer to improve park efficiency and guest personalization. They conclude that the technology’s true value lies in automating the back office so that staff can focus entirely on providing an authentic human experience in nature.
March 25, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – March 25th, 2026

The episode featured Brian Searl, Peter Pilarski, and Mike Lee discussing how AI and shifting search behaviors are transforming discovery and marketing for campground owners and tourism operators, with Peter advocating for “digital authority” through structured website content, schema markup, and entity consistency, while Mike shared how restructuring data on his Campsite Tonight app’s pages tripled his search impressions. All three agreed that small business owners should start with practical steps like optimizing their Google Business Profile and answering real traveler questions on their websites, focusing on one priority at a time rather than trying to tackle everything at once.
February 25, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – February 25th, 2026

Host Brian Searl led a discussion on the rapid evolution of AI agents and “dark factory” patterns with experts Matt Whitermore, Kurtis Wilkins, Cara Csizmadia, and Patrick Mullen. The panel explored how these technologies are revolutionizing campground operations and digital marketing, emphasizing that even non-technical operators can now leverage high-speed AI tools to build custom software and optimize guest acquisition strategies.
January 28, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – January 28th, 2026

In a session focused on the future of outdoor hospitality, host Brian Searl and industry experts discussed how AI and automation are being used to streamline operations and enhance the guest experience. The panel emphasized that while technology handles backend efficiency and data-driven tasks, the primary goal remains freeing up staff to provide a more personalized, human touch for campers.
November 26, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – November 26th, 2025

The November 26th episode of MC Fireside Chats featured an in-depth discussion on the accelerating pace of AI, sparked by the new Gemini 3.0 model and the US government’s “Genesis Mission,” with host Brian Searl and guests Kurtis Wilkins, Matt Whitermore, Cara Csizmadia, and special guest Lizzy Bustamante. The panel explored how AI is transforming business operations and slowing job growth, stressing that the outdoor hospitality industry must leverage these tools to enhance the crucial, human-centric guest experience rather than fearing the technological shift.

Recurring Guests

Mychele Bisson, Bison Peak Ventures

Mychele Bisson

Bison Peak Ventures
Cara Csizmadia, Canadian Camping & RV Association

Cara Csizmadia

Canadian Camping & RV Association
Matt Whittemore, Climb Capital

Matt Whittemore

Climb Capital
Ravi Parikh, RoverPass

Ravi Parikh

RoverPass
Sarah Stahl, Market Movers

Sarah Stahl

Market Movers

Week 5 - Multi-Sector Show

On the rare occasions when a month has a fifth Wednesday, we present a special multi-sector episode. This collaborative platform brings together a diverse panel of guests from the glamping, campground, RV, outdoor recreation, and activities industries. The rich discussion fosters a multifaceted understanding, offering varied perspectives and insights from across these sectors.

May 29, 2024

MC Fireside Chats – May 29th, 2024

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl is joined by Don Bennett, Jr., owner of Conesus Lake Campground; Melissa Baker, Director of Virginia State Parks; and Louis Thompson, Founder and CEO of Nomadic Resorts. Brian opens by explaining that this episode is unique, allowing for deeper conversations with the guests due to the extra week in the month, which provides an opportunity for a more intimate discussion with fewer guests. Don Bennett discusses his semi-retirement and the operations of his family’s two campgrounds in the Finger Lakes, along with their company, Murch Tourism. They distribute campground brochures and travel guides at consumer shows, with several upcoming events in Allentown, New York, Cleveland, and Hershey. Don also talks about his new role as the Executive Director of the Illinois Campground Association and their legislative goals, emphasizing the importance of adapting to changing trends in the RV industry, such as the shift towards smaller units that are easier to manage and place less demand on campground infrastructure. Louis Thompson delves into the potential of 3D printing in building construction, mentioning a project in Texas where the first 3D-printed hotel is being built. He highlights the benefits of 3D printing for creating innovative designs but also expresses concerns about the impact on traditional building trades. Louis describes the trend of van life, where young people retrofit traditional vans into camper vans, and how Nomadic Resorts focuses on creating modular, luxury tented camps that combine comfort with sustainability and mobility. He showcases their innovative designs, including the Looper, a modular, luxury tent that can withstand severe weather conditions. Melissa Baker explains her role as Director of Virginia State Parks, overseeing 42 state parks with various camping accommodations. She discusses the planning process for state parks, which involves public input every ten years to guide the development of camping facilities. Melissa highlights the differences between state and private campgrounds, emphasizing that state parks offer more primitive camping experiences but do have some amenities. She notes the challenges of accommodating larger RVs and the trend towards smaller, more customized units. The conversation shifts to the increasing popularity of smaller RVs and custom-built units. Don confirms this trend, mentioning the customization of Sprinter vans and the conversion of old school buses into mobile tiny homes, known as “schoolies.” He notes that smaller units are easier to manage and place less demand on electricity, which is beneficial for campgrounds and state parks alike. Don also highlights the importance of providing a variety of experiences for campers, emphasizing the need to offer activities and amenities that enhance the outdoor experience. Louis showcases Nomadic Resorts’ innovative designs, including the Looper and the Seed Pod. The Looper is a modular, luxury tent that combines comfort with sustainability and mobility, designed to withstand 140 km/h winds and featuring high-quality materials for longevity. The Seed Pod is a tent suspended from trees, designed for nature reserves and environmentally sensitive areas, offering an immersive nature experience with minimal environmental impact. Louis explains that these designs aim to provide the luxury and comfort of a hotel room while maintaining a strong connection to nature. The discussion touches on the balance between providing unique, high-end accommodations and maintaining a natural camping experience. Don mentions the challenges of zoning and capital investment, especially for campgrounds open only part of the year. He highlights the need for campground owners to be creative and innovative in offering new experiences to attract and retain guests. Louis and Brian agree on the growing demand for unique accommodations and the potential for innovation in the RV and camping industry. Melissa concludes by emphasizing the spectrum of outdoor experiences available to campers and the importance of catering to different preferences. She mentions the role of public input in guiding the development of state parks and the need to adapt to changing trends in the camping industry. Melissa also highlights the importance of collaboration between public and private campgrounds to provide a diverse range of experiences for campers. The episode wraps up with Don and Louis sharing resources and contact information for their respective businesses. Don mentions Murch Tourism and Illinois Go Camping as valuable resources for finding great campgrounds. Louis highlights Nomadic Resorts’ architectural and design services, expressing his interest in continuing the conversation in future episodes. The guests thank Brian for the opportunity to share their insights and look forward to future discussions on the evolving trends in outdoor hospitality and camping.
A screenshot of a white background with text and images related to the 2024 MC Fireside Chats.
January 31, 2024

MC Fireside Chats – January 31st, 2024

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, the conversation delved into the intricacies of the outdoor hospitality industry, featuring insights from Jenny McCullough, Director of Brand & Operations at Terramor Outdoor Resort/KOA; Jim Ritchie, CEO and Founder of AEONrv; and Dan and Angela Ugstad, Owners of Cuyuna Range Campground. The discussion spanned a range of topics, from the evolution of camping and glamping experiences to the integration of technology and sustainability in outdoor hospitality. Jenny McCullough shared the vision behind Terramor Outdoor Resort, a venture by KOA aimed at offering an elevated camping experience. She highlighted the importance of connecting people to the outdoors and each other, a mission central to KOA’s ethos. Terramor, embodying the concept of luxury camping, has been successful in attracting both seasoned campers and those new to the outdoor experience, demonstrating the growing appeal of glamping. McCullough emphasized the role of personalized guest experiences and the significance of staff interaction in enhancing the overall stay, underscoring the balance between technology and human touch in creating memorable visits. Jim Ritchie introduced AEONrv, a company focused on redefining the RV experience with high-tech, all-season vehicles designed for off-road and off-grid adventures. Ritchie’s background in Silicon Valley has informed the innovative approach of AEONrv, which aims to cater to a niche market seeking sustainable and durable RV options. He discussed the challenges and opportunities in expanding the RV market, particularly in relation to winter camping, and highlighted the importance of sustainability in the design and operation of RVs. Dan and Angela Ugstad shared their journey of establishing Cuyuna Range Campground, emphasizing their commitment to creating a private and nature-centric camping experience. They discussed the challenges of starting a campground from scratch, including navigating environmental regulations and designing a layout that prioritizes privacy and space. The Ugstads’ approach reflects a growing trend in the industry towards offering more secluded and environmentally integrated camping options, catering to campers seeking a retreat into nature. The conversation also touched on the broader trends in the outdoor hospitality industry, including the rise of winter camping and the increasing demand for sustainable practices. The speakers discussed the potential for campgrounds and RV manufacturers to adapt to these trends, offering insights into how businesses can evolve to meet the changing preferences of campers. The importance of listening to guest feedback and leveraging technology to enhance the camping experience was a recurring theme, highlighting the dynamic nature of the industry and the need for continuous innovation. Sustainability emerged as a key topic, with discussions on how campgrounds and RV companies are incorporating eco-friendly practices into their operations. From planting native trees and supporting local ecosystems to designing energy-efficient RVs, the speakers shared their efforts to minimize the environmental impact of camping and promote conservation. The introduction of honeybee hives at Terramor Outdoor Resort was highlighted as an innovative approach to combining education and conservation, illustrating the potential for campgrounds to contribute to environmental awareness and stewardship. The episode underscored the complexity of balancing technology, sustainability, and personalized guest experiences in the outdoor hospitality industry. The speakers shared their perspectives on the challenges and opportunities in catering to a diverse range of campers, from those seeking luxury and convenience to those desiring a more traditional connection with nature. The discussion reflected the evolving expectations of campers and the ongoing efforts by industry leaders to innovate and adapt to these changes. This episode provided a comprehensive overview of the current state and future directions of the outdoor hospitality industry. Through the experiences and insights of Jenny McCullough, Jim Ritchie, and Dan and Angela Ugstad, the conversation highlighted the importance of innovation, sustainability, and guest-centric approaches in shaping the future of camping and glamping. As the industry continues to evolve, the commitment to enhancing the outdoor experience while preserving the natural environment remains a central theme, driving the efforts of campgrounds and RV manufacturers alike.
This week's MC Fireside Chats were graced by the presence of Joan Martin.
August 30, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – August 30th, 2023

The recent episode of MC Fireside Chats featured a dynamic discussion with several prominent figures in the camping and RV industry for its multisector discussion. Brian Searl, the host, led the conversation with guests Jason Whiting, President of Pentor Recreation; Nicholas Denaro, Owner of The Ridge Campground; and Scott Hubble, CEO of nuCamp RV. The discussion began with Jason Whiting sharing his insights into the current trends and challenges faced by the camping and recreation industry. He highlighted the impact of the pandemic on outdoor recreation and discussed how Pentor Recreation is adapting to the new normal. Nicholas Denaro, who owns The Ridge Campground, shared his experiences in managing a campground during these challenging times. He discussed the importance of creating a safe and enjoyable environment for campers while also addressing the operational challenges posed by the pandemic. Scott Hubble, CEO of nuCamp RV, shared his perspective from the RV manufacturing side of the industry. He discussed the surge in demand for RVs during the pandemic and how nuCamp RV has adjusted its production and operations to meet this demand. He also touched on the challenges faced by RV manufacturers in sourcing materials and components due to supply chain disruptions. Throughout the podcast, the guests shared their thoughts on the future of camping and RV travel. There was a consensus that the popularity of outdoor recreation and RV travel is likely to continue in the post-pandemic world. However, there are challenges that need to be addressed, such as the need for more campgrounds and improved infrastructure to accommodate the increasing number of RV travelers. The discussion also touched on the importance of technology in the camping and RV industry. The guests agreed that technology plays a crucial role in improving the camping experience for travelers and in helping campground owners and RV manufacturers to operate more efficiently. Overall, the podcast provided valuable insights into the current state of the camping and RV industry, as well as a look ahead to its future. The guests shared their experiences and perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing the industry, and offered their thoughts on how campground owners, RV manufacturers, and others in the industry can navigate these challenges and thrive in the post-pandemic world.
On March 29th, 2023, we were joined by MC Rescue Chats for our Fireside Chats.
March 29, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – March 29th, 2023

On March 29, the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, took a closer look at the outdoor recreation industry, such as the emerging trends in outdoor activities, innovations in the RV industry, and the growing popularity of glamping. This week’s show featured a panel of entrepreneurs from the outdoor recreation industry, including Kay Rodriguez from Outerly, Chandler Cooper from SkillAbove, and Mike and Melissa Crowe from Mitten Getaways Glamping. Kay Rodriguez, founder and CEO of Outerly, shared her company’s mission to help people connect with nature and each other, particularly in underutilized spaces within cities. “75% of people would go outside more frequently if they could easily find someone else to go with,” she said. She said that Outerly addresses this need by offering a platform for users to find outdoor activities and connect with like-minded individuals. Chandler, the founder of SkillAbove, discussed the various tools and consumer products his company has developed to improve the RV experience. Among their innovations is a device that overrides slide-out mechanisms when they get stuck, allowing RV owners to continue their journey. Chandler highlighted that some manufacturers have started to switch to better slide-out mechanisms due to the increase in problems related to them. He also revealed that RvTesters is working on a new slide mechanism to improve RV quality. Mike and Melissa Crowe, founders of Mitten Getaway’s Glamping Company, shared their vision for a year-round glamping resort in Michigan. The resort will feature diverse accommodations and on-site activities, with a focus on meeting specific property criteria such as having a water feature, being secluded, and offering space for on-site activities. The discussion also touched on the integration of technology in the outdoor recreation industry, such as artificial intelligence (AI) for diagnostics and maintenance in RVs. Chandler acknowledged the potential for this technology but emphasized that the RV industry would need to adopt a more unified approach to system communication and diagnostic access, similar to the automotive industry, for this to be feasible. The conversation also explored the possibility of collaboration between the RV rental marketplace Outdoorsy and SkillAbove to offer a “rescue package” for users who rent RVs and may need assistance with maintenance or repairs. This partnership could provide an added layer of support for those venturing into the great outdoors. As people increasingly seek connections with nature and others in the wake of the pandemic, businesses like Outerly, SkillAbove RvTesters, and Mitten Getaways Glamping are poised to lead the way in transforming the outdoor recreation experience. With new technologies and innovative approaches, the future of outdoor adventure promises to be more accessible, enjoyable, and connected than ever before.
This week we were joined by MC Fireside Chats.
November 30, 2022

MC Fireside Chats – November 30th, 2022

In this special episode of MC Fireside Chats, glamping and camping industry experts from all over the world joined us to talk about the challenges they faced in developing their businesses and how they overcame them. This week’s special guests are Olja Nicholl, owner of Serbia’s first-ever glamping resort, Stephanie Bias of Camp Aramoni in Illinois, Italian Architectural Design Manager Giacomo Sanna, and Valentina Kožarić from Croatia. Nicholl shared how they started Lala Vineyard Glamping Resort, Serbia’s first glamping resort. She said she was inspired by United Arab Emirates’ growing glamping industry and decided to bring glamping to Serbia. For Nicholl, bringing glamping to Serbia was not an easy feat. Nestled in a landlocked country, they had to be resourceful and utilize the little natural resources they had to offer unique experiences to guests. Lala Vineyard started small and is now a glamping resort based on sustainability, local experiences, and wine production. She highlighted that developing not just a glamping business but a community that continuously explores tries local, and collaborates with local suppliers is essential. Sanna, an architectural design manager and architecture and parametric design consultant, talked about the struggles of bureaucracy affecting the glamping industry in Italy and how they develop new solutions that can help glamping businesses in the country. Kožarić, a front office manager for a camping and glamping resort in Croatia offering pitches for campers and mobile homes, said the camping and glamping industry in Croatia is growing. Since the company’s inception, they had to offer something different each year. Bias of Camp Aramoni shared how they struggled to define their identity. From glamping to luxury camping and now boutique camping. When asked what the future holds for them, Bias said they aim to create better, unique experiences, add more accommodations, and open year-round.
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June 29, 2022

MC Fireside Chats – June 29th, 2022

This week on MC Fireside Chats, presented by Modern Campground, we broadcast a special fifth episode for the month of June. Anything and everything were up for discussion. Plus, we were joined by special guests: Neil Demosthenous and Demos Demosthenous, the founders of SkyWeb gave us some guidance on wireless services and infrastructure at campgrounds. Plus, we welcomed Sandra Fraser, Parks Promotion & Development Officer, Province of Nova Scotia who discussed Camping Nova Scotia’s provincial parks. MC Fireside Chats is a weekly show focused on the latest news, trends, and commentary from the Outdoor Hospitality Industry with hosts Brian Searl and Cara Csizmadia.
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September 29, 2021

MC Fireside Chats – September 29th, 2021

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, presented by Modern Campground, we discussed the then-upcoming fall conferences in the United States and Canada. Lori Severson from the brand new Campground Owners Expo – COE joined us, along with Joss Penny from British Columbia to talk about their respective conferences. Plus, we heard from Joe Duemig, a supplier from App My Community, about vendor interest in these shows, as well as discussed ARVC, KOA, Jellystone, and state conferences like New York and Pennsylvania.