Episodes

In this final episode of 2025, host Brian Searl and a panel of industry experts review the year’s milestones, discussing advancements in market data, product innovations, and the rising popularity of immersive agrotourism. The group also engages in a lively debate on leveraging AI for marketing and photography, ultimately predicting that 2026 will be a pivotal year defined by unique guest experiences and renewed occupancy growth.

The special episode of MC Fireside Chats was hosted live by Brian Searl at the KOA Convention in Raleigh, North Carolina, on November 19, 2025. The panel—Matt Stovold, Gwyn Wathen, Ryan McPeek, Camille McPeek, Samantha Chipperfield, and Mike Harrison—discussed conference takeaways, networking, cabin ROI, and their plans for leveraging AI and revenue management in 2026. The conversation also explored franchise support, KOA’s community, unique campground activities, and sustainable development, with each guest sharing their personal insights on the outdoor hospitality industry.

The latest MC Fireside Chats episode, featuring host Brian Searl, Scott Foos, and guests Sangeetha Ramkumar and Hannah Terry, synthesized insights on the outdoor hospitality market’s major shifts, including the new NEC code and the Marriott Outdoor Collection. The central discussion focused on how operators must balance high-end design and efficiency (Dunya Camp) with unique, activity-driven experiences on smaller, working farms (Wildwoodland Retreat) to achieve profitability and meet evolving guest expectations.

During the MC Fireside Chats, host Rafael Correa and guests Jeff Hoffman, Mike Harrison, and Sandy Ellingson discussed the state of the outdoor hospitality industry, covering the slow 2025 season, the importance of innovation in technology and marketing, and the controversial shift towards long-term stays. The panel also debated the challenges of attracting new campers and the need for the industry to adapt its business models to remain competitive.

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts discussed new tax benefits for campground owners and RV buyers, the importance of focusing on guest experience over simply adding amenities, and the crucial role of technology and strategic planning in business growth.

On the July 16th episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed back Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality and Sandy Ellingson, a consultant in the RV industry. Robert Preston, founder and CEO of Unhitched RV and Management, joined as a new recurring guest. Angele Miller, owner of Creekside RnR Glamping, and Britt Roth, co-owner of Dark Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah, also joined the discussion. The chat began with introductions. Mike Harrison, COO of CRR Hospitality, explained their focus on owning, managing, and consulting for RV and glamping resorts. He mentioned an upcoming cruise to Alaska from Vancouver. Sandy Ellingson described her primary role as a liaison between the RV industry and campgrounds, leveraging her background in technology and strategy. She enjoys semi-retirement, picking and choosing her clients. Robert Preston introduced Unhitched RV and Management, which owns, operates, and develops RV parks primarily in the Southeast, also offering third-party management and consulting. A significant portion of the discussion revolved around the role of AI in the RV and camping industry. Mike Harrison announced the imminent launch of “Rigsby Live” (soon to be “Campy Live”), an AI voice reservation agent. He believes this will revolutionize the industry by eliminating busy signals and allowing 24/7 reservations, integrating with platforms like CampSpot. He noted that this technology is ahead of even the hotel industry. Brian Searl added that this AI can handle full reservations, check availability, provide site types, and send payment links, aiming to replace standard phone representatives. Robert Preston shared that Unhitched RV primarily uses AI on the backend for data aggregation, particularly for deep dives into rates, comps, and occupancies for acquisitions, as well as for power consumption and utility metering. He acknowledged a deficit of institutionalized data in the RV industry compared to others like multifamily, where CoStar provides vast amounts of detailed information. He emphasized that AI currently helps them gather data quickly, but human interpretation is still crucial for valuable, specific output. Sandy Ellingson expanded on the data challenge, stating that the existing data is often “dirty.” She explained that AI struggles to differentiate between transient, long-term stay, and 55+ RV parks, leading to diluted data when merged. Robert Preston agreed, highlighting the industry’s lack of clear definitions for “campground,” “park,” and “resort,” contributing to poor data quality. Mike Harrison mentioned that OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry) is now actively working to normalize and aggregate data, categorizing campgrounds to help with investment and analytical reflection, and to facilitate tax code changes for REITs. This process is expected to take 12-18 months. The conversation shifted to takeaways from the July 4th holiday weekend and changing camper behaviors. Sandy Ellingson noted the absence of a “norm” in bookings; some parks were anxious about not selling out but then did so last minute, indicating a shrinking booking window. She observed parks offering creative incentives like extended stays with flexible arrival/departure times. Campers, she noted, appreciate the ability to make last-minute decisions. She also highlighted an increasing demand for tent camping and car camping sites, redefining entry-level camping experiences, with expensive, high-tech car setups blurring the lines with traditional RVs. Brian Searl questioned the traditional reluctance of campgrounds to accept tent campers, especially given the evolving nature of camping and the need to be strategic in a more competitive market. Sandy Ellingson used the “roast” analogy to illustrate how outdated practices, like refusing tent campers, persist without understanding their modern evolution. She emphasized that a new generation of campers, including those exploring “gateway drugs” into camping like car camping, needs to be considered. Angele Miller shared that her glamping resort has seen a shift towards more European and Eastern US visitors, remaining fully booked due to being in a highly touristic region with a lack of accommodation. Robert Preston discussed their focus on multi-generational camping, planning new developments to integrate RV sites with cabins or lodging units nearby to accommodate families with varying preferences. He also touched on the current market reality for park owners, noting a shift from the inflated valuations of 2021-2022. Owners are now making decisions to sell, move to third-party management, or continue operating, facing a choice between retaining control and leveraging professional expertise or seeking an exit. He highlighted time, energy, and talent as primary drivers for owners considering third-party management or selling. Mike Harrison added profitability as another key factor, suggesting that professional management can drive more revenue. He acknowledged the “conundrum” for smaller mom-and-pop campgrounds that might find management fees cost-prohibitive. The discussion moved to the acceptance of tent camping in upscale resorts. Mike Harrison stated that CRR Hospitality is not resistant to tent camping and is actively exploring creating dedicated sections for them in larger properties, especially as the market becomes more competitive. He emphasized that tent campers can still be affluent and contribute positively to a campground. Britt Roth from Dark Sky RV Campground shared her experience, initially opening with tent camping but later converting those sites to electric-only due to negative experiences with rudeness, messiness, and demanding behavior from some tent campers. She emphasized creating a “boutique” experience focusing on small rigs, offering amenities like spa-like showers, yoga classes, and goat walks. The concept of customer experience and recurring guests was explored. Angele Miller highlighted that despite increased competition (over 55 glamping resorts in her province compared to three when she started), her resort remains fully booked by focusing on continuous innovation, exceptional customer service, and unique offerings. They streamline check-in with text messages, provide high-quality cooking amenities (Green Egg BBQs), offer hot tubs in every unit, and leverage local partnerships for unique experiences like lobster and oyster deliveries. They also cater to corporate retreats to fill off-peak times and prioritize personalized service, including handwritten welcome notes for returning guests. Robert Preston presented his “four by four” framework for managing properties: the four fundamental needs (safety, cleanliness, friendliness) that must be met, and the four operational buckets (technology, operations, facilities, marketing) to fulfill them. He stressed that while “sizzle” (unique attractions) draws guests once, the fundamentals ensure recurring visits and loyalty. He noted that some of their best-performing parks are not the prettiest but excel in creating a strong sense of community and culture. Mike Harrison echoed this, emphasizing “execute excellently” – getting the basics right for a seamless guest experience and avoiding “distractions.” He also highlighted “experiential hospitality,” leveraging each property’s unique “DNA” and a continuous drive for improvement. The panel also discussed the complexity of mixing different accommodation types like RVs and glamping. While Brian Searl initially suggested it might be harder, Mike Harrison and Robert Preston argued that it’s more about knowing your customer and ensuring the “right fit.” Robert Preston stressed that adding cabins or glamping units significantly changes operational and maintenance requirements, essentially adding different business lines that need to be managed distinctly. Angele Miller shared her decision not to mix glamping with RV/tent sites at her resort, as the clientele for each is vastly different, and introducing tenters could negatively impact the experience for her glamping guests who seek a higher price point and different atmosphere. She noted that national parks are introducing basic “authentic” glamping tents that appeal to a different segment. Sandy Ellingson offered a broader perspective, noting the blurring lines of terminology, where “glamping” can also describe RV camping for some. She believes there’s space for all types of experiences, but emphasized understanding one’s niche. She highlighted the core difference between campgrounds and hotels: the community and relationships built among campers, where guests interact and connect in unique ways not found elsewhere. This community aspect is, for her, the “heart” of the industry. Britt Roth reinforced the idea of “staying in your lane” – focusing on what you do best and are passionate about, and then creating a luxurious experience within that niche, rather than trying to compete on all fronts. The discussion concluded with a consensus that “staying in your lane” doesn’t mean stagnation but rather strategic expansion. As Robert Preston put it, you can “be in multiple lanes, but you can’t go down the road the opposite direction.” Sandy Ellingson clarified that staying in your lane “does not mean no change.” Britt Roth added that it’s about “creating the new lane” and reinventing what RVing or glamping can be, emphasizing the ever-evolving nature of the industry and the magic of creating unique experiences. Brian Searl expressed gratitude to the panelists for their insights.

June 18th Episode Recap This episode of MC Fireside Chats, guest-hosted by Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, brought together a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality experts to discuss current trends, challenges, opportunities, and the unique aspects of their respective properties. The discussion highlighted the varied experiences within the campground industry, from long-standing family businesses to niche, destination-focused operations, and the ongoing impact of external factors like legislation and economic shifts. Mike Harrison, Chief Operating Officer of CRR Hospitality, introduced himself and his company, which owns, manages, and consults on outdoor hospitality assets. He expressed excitement about guest hosting and noted the show’s weekly rotation of panelists and topics, covering trends, markets, challenges, and opportunities. Jeff Hoffman, a founder of Camp Strategy, a consulting firm for campgrounds, shared his extensive experience, revealing he has owned his current campground since 1968, making him the most tenured in the group. His firm offers services from due diligence and feasibility studies to coaching for profitability. Kaleigh Day, owner of Surf Junction Campground in Ucluelet, BC, described her unique, forested property located near the Pacific Rim National Park Reserve. Her campground features traditional tenting and partially/full-service sites, along with amenities like hot tubs, a sauna, flush toilets, and hot showers. A key differentiator is her surf school, operating out of the national park, alongside surf rentals, a general store, and a coffee shop. The campground has about 90 campsites across 72 acres, utilizing about 40, keeping the rest wild. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction’s revenue model relies on a “trifecta” of camping, surf lessons, and surf rentals. Keeping camping prices relatively low helps attract more campers, especially in the shoulder season, with additional revenue generated from add-ons like coffee, merchandise, and crucially, surf lessons and rentals, often bundled in packages. She noted that the surf school builds community and loyalty, with campers returning annually and bringing friends and family. Kaleigh’s family acquired the pre-existing Surf Junction 13 years ago when it was smaller, and they have since expanded the offerings and visibility of the surf school. She highlighted the campground’s destination appeal, being a five-and-a-half-hour journey from Vancouver, involving a ferry and a long, winding road, meaning visitors specifically choose to come to them. Reservations open in January and are typically full for the summer by June. Stephen Saint Fort, owner of Fort Welikit Campground in Custer, South Dakota, described his 22-acre property just outside Custer, near Custer State Park and Black Hills National Forest. His campground has 100 sites, with 71 being RV sites ranging from 30-amp water and electric to 50-amp pull-throughs. A unique feature is that no two sites are alike, and the campground is heavily treed, with deer and turkey frequently seen. Stephen proudly introduced their “Camping barrels,” unique sleeping cabins that look like giant whiskey barrels, special-ordered from Norway. These barrels offer a mattress, electricity, a light, and a fan, positioned close to a bathhouse, and guests bring their own bedding. He decided to offer them as a more affordable, single-night option than full-service cabins, and they have been unexpectedly popular. Jeff Hoffman then discussed a concerning legislative trend in Ohio, where a bill could allow county commissioners to take two-thirds of bed tax revenue for discretionary use, rather than for the visitors bureau. He shared his experience on his county’s visitors bureau, which grew from $250,000 to $4 million in revenue, and now faces demands from the county. Mike Harrison echoed these concerns, citing similar issues in Arizona where a proposed five-point bed tax increase would make a small town’s taxes among the highest in the state, potentially driving visitors to less expensive, more developed cities. Both stressed the importance of industry involvement in local, state, and national associations to combat unregulated changes that could negatively impact properties. Jeff further illustrated this point with his personal experience building a bathhouse, which saw costs nearly double due to unexpected Ohio building codes for commercial structures, contrasting it with Stephen’s experience with barrels in the Dakotas where zoning might be less stringent. The conversation shifted to summer travel trends. Kaleigh Day noted an increase in bookings, especially in the shoulder season, with more Canadians staying within Canada and a significant rise in European visitors, particularly Germans and Dutch, who often rent RVs in the Rockies and finish their trips on Vancouver Island. She observed that tighter budgets might be leading more people to choose camping over expensive resorts. Stephen Saint Fort reported a slow May due to cold and rain. While his Canadian bookings seemed on track, he noted an influx of cancellations from Quebec specifically, but other provinces were still booking. His international bookings are higher, partly attributed to switching to an online booking company, Firefly, which simplifies the process for international travelers. The discussion also touched on the shrinking booking window, which both Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman confirmed has decreased by 20-30% year-on-year, leading to more last-minute bookings. This trend suggests shorter, closer-to-home vacations. Stephen Saint Fort, however, observed that while his bookings are fewer, the average length of stay has increased from 4-5 nights to 6-7 nights, indicating guests are staying longer to explore the many attractions in the Black Hills. Kaleigh Day, conversely, prefers shorter stays (2-3 days) to maximize surf rental and lesson opportunities. The unique identities and diverse markets of campgrounds were emphasized. Stephen Saint Fort highlighted the variety even within Custer, with 55 campgrounds within 15 miles, each catering to different guest needs, such as those prioritizing satellite TV over treed sites. Mike Harrison underscored the diversity not only in market but also in sophistication, contrasting Stephen’s recent adoption of online booking with his own properties’ long-standing reliance on it. He mentioned ongoing efforts to classify campgrounds by category to nationalize data for better trend analysis. The panelists then discussed the prevalence of RV rentals. Kaleigh estimated that perhaps a third to half of their RV guests are in rentals, particularly Europeans, and noted a new trend of locals Airbnbing their trailers and motorhomes. Stephen estimated around 10% of his guests use rentals, often international travelers using companies like Cruise America, and also locals through RV Share. Mike Harrison identified a significant industry gap in connecting RV renters directly with campgrounds for destinations. Stephen shared his strategy of building relationships with local RV Share owners and delivery drivers, who then recommend his campground. Jeff Hoffman concurred, noting the RV rental market is relatively new (about four years old) and stressed the need for RV share operators to understand that their renters must still adhere to campground rules. The conversation briefly veered into sports rivalries, with Kaleigh from Seattle (Seahawks fan), Stephen from Pittsburgh (Steelers fan), and Jeff from Ohio (Browns fan), adding a lighthearted moment. Mike Harrison then steered the discussion to strategies for boosting revenues. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction diversifies revenue by heavily promoting surf lessons and rentals, incentivizing staff to upsell, and increasing marketing spend when sales are low. Stephen Saint Fort, benefiting from the self-selling Black Hills area, promotes his campground by attending travel shows and being involved with tourism organizations, noting an influx of visitors from states where he’s attended shows. He also works on improving their social media presence and collaborating with local influencers. Jeff Hoffman advised new parks to use industry data to identify their specific market niche and consider hiring marketing firms for deep dives. For established campgrounds like his, he explained that growth is harder, now aiming for 8% rather than 10-15%. They target marketing efforts to attendees of camping shows within a three-hour drive and leverage Google Ads. As a KOA partner, his campground benefits from national marketing, allowing them to focus locally, including marketing to visitors of nearby attractions like Cedar Point amusement park and new sports facilities. In their parting words, Stephen Saint Fort thanked everyone, reiterated the diversity of campgrounds, and offered Kaleigh advice. Jeff Hoffman also expressed gratitude, emphasized that “every campground’s different,” and offered his consulting services for initial chats without cost. Kaleigh Day found it “awesome” to chat with fellow campground operators, appreciating the insights and camaraderie within their niche career. Mike Harrison concluded by thanking all guests for their time and passion, highlighting the amazing opportunities and community within the outdoor hospitality industry.

The May 21st, 2025 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, convened a panel of esteemed recurring and special guests to delve into pivotal topics within the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The familiar voices joining the conversation included Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, a company focused on owning and operating luxury upscale RV and glamping resorts, as well as providing third-party consulting. Ali Rasmussen, co-founder of Spacious Skies Campgrounds, which owns and operates campgrounds along the East Coast from Maine to Georgia, also returned, expressing enthusiasm for the upcoming season. Rounding out the recurring panel was Jeff Hoffman from Camp Strategy, a consulting firm dedicated to helping campground owners achieve profitability. This episode welcomed two special guests. Heidi Doyle from Utility Supply Group (USG) introduced her company as a key electrical distributor for the outdoor hospitality sector, serving RV parks, campgrounds, marinas, and glamping resorts. Heidi emphasized USG’s commitment to not just supplying products but also ensuring safety and compliance by actively working with the National Electric Code and UL standards for power outlets. The second special guest was Jim Omstrom, co-founder of Open Road Resorts. Jim shared that Open Road Resorts owns a growing portfolio of campgrounds across the United States, including locations near Dallas, Santa Fe, West Yellowstone, and Omaha, with a focus on acquiring and developing more properties. Before diving into the special guest segments, Brian prompted the recurring panelists for any pressing industry topics. Mike Harrison immediately highlighted the continued and accelerating growth of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the camping sector. He referenced a recent generational camping report indicating that 30% of campers have already used AI for search, a figure expected to rise to 75% in the coming years. Mike stressed the importance for industry players to stay ahead of the curve as generative search and Google’s prioritization of AI are set to revolutionize how campers find and book their stays. Jeff Hoffman echoed Mike’s sentiments, noting the rapid learning capabilities of AI and its daily improvements, particularly when actively trained. Ali Rasmussen added her experience, mentioning a demo she encountered built within ChatGPT that functioned as an itinerary and trip planner for one of their campground locations, showcasing the practical applications of AI for enhancing guest services. Beyond AI, Ali Rasmussen, also a board member of OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry), brought a critical legislative issue to the forefront: the Credit Card Competition Act. She explained that this bipartisan bill aims to address the duopoly of Visa and MasterCard, which has led to escalating credit card swipe fees – a significant expense for campground owners, often ranking in their top five operational costs. Ali detailed the unique impact on campgrounds, where multiple transactions (booking, changes, cancellations, re-bookings) can incur non-refundable swipe fees, even when guests are refunded. Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman shared that they had previously lobbied in Washington D.C. on this very issue, underscoring its importance. They urged listeners to visit OHI’s social media pages for links to contact their representatives and voice their support for the act, emphasizing that it affects all businesses accepting credit cards, not just RV parks. Heidi Doyle mentioned that for Utility Supply Group’s larger transactions, credit card fees are often passed on to the customer, while smaller orders’ fees are absorbed. Brian acknowledged the pervasiveness of these fees, even with third-party payment systems. The conversation then shifted to a deeper dive with the special guests. Heidi Doyle elaborated on Utility Supply Group’s long-standing presence in the industry, noting their 26-year history initiated by Wade Elliot. She explained USG’s unique approach of primarily connecting with customers through trade shows and conferences rather than traditional advertising, valuing their loyal customer base. A core philosophy for USG, instilled by Wade, is to be a resource and ensure customers get the right products, especially for those new to the industry or specific electrical components. Heidi highlighted their expertise in the National Electric Code and NFPA 1194, positioning USG as more than just a seller. Key products offered include pedestals, surface mount boxes, distribution panels, transformers, wire, site amenities like lighting, and increasingly, solutions for EV charging. She also discussed the growing importance of electrical metering (sub-metering) to help campgrounds recoup utility expenses and encourage conservation, differentiating between “dumb” meters requiring manual reads and “smart” meters that integrate with reservation systems. Jeff Hoffman inquired about the potential for USG to develop water metering solutions, to which Heidi responded that while they offer basic water meters, USG currently focuses on electrical distribution and is not primarily a software developer, though they are aware of companies like Wild Energy exploring integrated solutions. Next, Jim Omstrom shared the origin story of Open Road Resorts, which began as a “midlife crisis” entrepreneurial venture with his business partner, Chase, around 2018. Leveraging their backgrounds in public equity investment and a shared passion for the outdoors, they acquired their first park in Dallas. After a pause and operational refinement during the COVID-19 pandemic, Open Road Resorts partnered with consumer private equity fund L Catterton, RV manufacturer THOR Industries (owner of Airstream and Jayco), and two other family offices to fuel their growth. Jim articulated that the brand “Open Road Resorts” aims to address the inconsistent experiences often encountered in the RV park industry. While each park retains its unique local feel, the goal is to provide a consistently clean, safe, highly amenitized, and family-friendly environment with excellent customer service. When Brian asked about the 10-year vision, Jim stated the focus is on continued brand building, team expansion, and acquiring great parks to build a national network. Discussing operational approaches, Jim explained their model of having a General Manager at each park who reports to a central operations team. This sparked a broader discussion among the multi-park operators. Ali Rasmussen shared Spacious Skies Campgrounds’ journey, from initially attempting a model where regional managers also managed a home campground, to their current structure of three regional directors overseeing GMs and reporting directly to her. They’ve intentionally trimmed layers to maintain control and efficiency. Jeff Hoffman emphasized the importance of building a solid foundational structure for scalability, noting that while technology like cloud-based PMS and accounting systems has made remote management easier, finding the right people remains the biggest challenge. Mike Harrison added that there’s no one-size-fits-all operational model, and what works depends on the specific properties, revenue, and stage of growth, sharing that CRR Hospitality also pivots its structure based on circumstances. Ali Rasmussen then queried Jim Omstrom about the unique partnership with THOR Industries. Jim explained their pre-existing relationship with THOR’s management team from their public equity days. When Open Road Resorts decided to accelerate growth, they approached THOR, who saw an opportunity to strategically partner and help shape the campground experience, potentially testing new concepts. As an example, Jim mentioned an “Airstream-only” section, or “camp Airstream,” being piloted at their West Yellowstone park. This led to a discussion about the RVIA Campground Coalition’s efforts to foster communication between manufacturers and campground owners, particularly concerning the increasing size and electrical demands of new RVs, and how campgrounds, especially older ones, can keep pace with infrastructure needs. Heidi Doyle noted that, as of 2022, THOR had no immediate plans for 100-amp RVs, which would require new electrical pedestal designs. The final major topic was the significant advancements in AI search, spurred by recent Google I/O announcements. Brian presented a short video showcasing Google’s new “AI Mode,” a complete re-imagining of search that moves beyond the traditional 10 blue links to a personalized, generative AI-driven experience. This mode will allow for longer, more complex queries and even enable “agents” like Project Mariner to perform tasks on the user’s behalf, including making purchases. Brian stressed that this will dramatically impact how campgrounds are discovered and booked, affecting website traffic (likely decreasing overall traffic but increasing conversion rates of qualified leads) and user interaction. Heidi Doyle asked about the implications for keywords and search strategies. Brian explained that the shift is towards longer, conversational queries, and that AI itself will increasingly interpret and refine user intent, making traditional keyword targeting less relevant. The focus, he advised, should be on high-quality content, user experience, site architecture (like schema markup), and brand trust signals (like press releases and social mentions). Jim Omstrom inquired if anyone was exploring “AI SEO,” to which Mike Harrison and Brian confirmed they were actively working on these strategies, emphasizing that a blend of traditional SEO and new AI-focused approaches is currently necessary. The discussion highlighted the personalized nature of AI search results, with different users receiving different recommendations based on their implicit and explicit preferences, making foundational website best practices even more critical. As the episode concluded, each guest provided their final thoughts and where listeners could learn more about their respective organizations. Heidi Doyle directed listeners to Utility Supply Group’s presence in Woodall’s and their social media. Ali Rasmussen pointed to spaciousskiescampgrounds.com and their social channels, mentioning their current exciting phase of seeking new partners. Jeff Hoffman invited inquiries through campstrategy.com. Jim Omstrom encouraged visits to openroadresorts.com for information on their parks. Brian Searl wrapped up the show, thanking his guests and promoting his other podcast, Outwired, which would further delve into AI announcements and RV park guest demographics.

April 16th Episode Recap The episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks, convened a diverse panel of industry professionals including recurring guests Jeff Hoffman (Camp Strategy), Mike Harrison (CRR Hospitality), and Sandy Ellingson (Industry Liaison/Consultant), alongside special guests Kurtis Wilkins (Private Equity Analyst, Rjourney), Jennifer L. Grissom (Co-Owner, Crystal River KOA), and Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen (Owner, ARK@Denali Campground Resort). The comprehensive discussion explored crucial aspects of the outdoor hospitality sector, focusing on operational strategies, the interpretation of market data, adapting to consumer shifts, and navigating the increasing trend of institutional investment. Brian Searl opened the show by introducing the panel and highlighting recent technological advancements from Insider Perks. He announced the rollout of Rigsby, their AI voice chatbot, which is now capable of handling reservations via chat and is soon expected to offer voice reservation capabilities. Brian emphasized that this innovation is poised to be a significant disruptor in the industry, providing 24/7 booking options and eliminating common issues like busy signals, acknowledging that early adoption may involve a testing phase. The conversation quickly turned to industry data, prompted by insights drawn from the KOA North American Camping Report. Sandy Ellingson shared her positive takeaways, noting substantial increases in camping households and high retention rates among campers who began during the pandemic. She also highlighted encouraging growth in specific accommodation types, such as a significant rise in tent usage. However, Sandy expressed concern that some parks were limiting tent camping, which she sees as a vital “onboarding” method for introducing younger generations to camping, and advocated for viewing tent and car camping as strategic tools. Providing additional perspective on the data, Mike Harrison and Kurtis Wilkins cautioned against solely comparing current figures to 2019 (pre-pandemic) growth, which naturally saw a massive surge. While acknowledging continued overall interest, they stressed the importance of analyzing recent year-over-year changes and noted signs of potential headwinds, including recent nationwide dips in consumer activity in Q1 and April. Kurtis specifically highlighted that Rjourney is observing tighter booking windows, making forecasting more challenging despite no overall drop in bookings. A key theme discussed was the need for campgrounds to adapt to the evolving consumer. Mike Harrison pointed out that demographic data in some CRR Hospitality resorts shows a nearly equal distribution across age groups (Baby Boomers to Gen Z), necessitating varied marketing strategies across different platforms to reach each segment effectively. He and Kurtis Wilkins stressed the importance of adopting “experiential hospitality” to make stays a lifestyle experience and utilizing technology for simple enhancements, not just complex systems, to cater to the modern traveler. Kurtis Wilkins emphasized that understanding each park’s specific demographic and location is crucial for effective microtargeting in marketing efforts, noting that even regional terminology like “campground” versus “RV park” matters. He stressed the critical need for operators to closely monitor operational data such as pace reports, leads, and conversion rates at a granular level to identify demographic shifts and pivot strategies quickly in response to market changes, including those influenced by external factors. Jennifer L. Grissom shared her firsthand experience as a new owner/developer of the Crystal River KOA, which opened recently. She spoke about the success of her first year, exceeding initial projections, but also highlighted the operational challenges posed by the current narrow booking window that complicates forecasting. Jennifer discussed her surprise regarding the volume of tent campers and the lessons learned about pricing and managing that segment, noting that higher price points sometimes attract specific demographics like elderly individuals seeking facility access. She strongly emphasized the invaluable support the KOA franchise provides through established operating systems, marketing, and brand recognition for a park of her size. Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen introduced her unique and ambitious project, ARK@Denali Campground Resort in Alaska. Describing herself as a visionary builder, Yo’EL is developing the property to leverage its unparalleled view of Mount Denali. She detailed her strategy to operate year-round, which is uncommon in Alaska, partly driven by a personal mission to provide a place of light and community during the long winter months. Yo’EL outlined diversified revenue streams beyond traditional RV sites, including capitalizing on tour bus traffic with a heated viewing deck and other amenities, and mentioned exploring funding options like USDA loans and phased development to include workforce housing for quicker revenue generation. The increasing trend of institutional investment and the entry of major hotel brands into the outdoor hospitality space were significant points of discussion. Kurtis Wilkins highlighted Rjourney’s recent success securing a CMBS loan that included transient revenue, a first of its kind, which he believes will pave the way for other RV parks to access similar institutional financing. Mike Harrison discussed how this trend, combined with potential future online distribution platforms for campgrounds, is professionalizing the industry, suggesting that independent parks must embrace “operational excellence” and differentiate themselves effectively to compete, a point echoed by Jeff Hoffman on finding one’s niche. Concluding the chat, Kurtis Wilkins used a memorable analogy: technology is the car, and data are the windows – you need the right tech systems (the car) but also need to look at your data (the windows) to know where you’re going. He called for more collective data sharing across the industry to better understand and compete in the evolving market. The overall sentiment was one of dynamic change, with significant opportunities for parks willing to adapt, understand their guests and market, and leverage technology and data to enhance operations and guest experience. Brian Searl invited listeners to continue the data discussion on his other podcast, Outwired.