Episodes

Week 1 - Industry Trends & Insights

Each first Wednesday of the month, we dive into the latest trends, market analysis, and predictions in the outdoor hospitality industry. Join industry analysts, market researchers, and outdoor hospitality industry leaders as they unpack topics like market growth, demographic changes, and guest preferences.

Mc Fireside Chats - This week, on August 2nd, we were joined by 2023.
August 2, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – August 2nd, 2023

In the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats hosted by Brian Searle, a panel of industry experts convened to discuss the evolving role of data and artificial intelligence (AI) in the recreational vehicle (RV) industry. The panelists included Casey Cochran from Campspot, Mike Harrison from CRR: A Lifestyle Company, Christine Taylor from the Towne Law Firm, and, RV Industry Consultant, Sandy Ellington. The discussion was a deep dive into the potential of data analysis and AI in revolutionizing the RV industry, drawing parallels with the hotel industry. The conversation kicked off with a discussion on Campspot’s new Signal Reports. These reports provide anonymized data to Campspot’s customers, offering insights into their performance compared to other similar parks. The data is derived from several factors, including location, amenities, size, and climate. The panelists highlighted the importance of such data in making informed business decisions and driving revenue growth. The panelists also discussed the broader role of data analysis in the RV industry. Drawing from their experiences, they noted that the RV industry could significantly benefit from the kind of data analysis that has been a staple in the hotel industry for years. The panelists emphasized the need for the RV industry to leverage data to understand market trends, customer behavior, and business performance. The conversation then shifted to the potential of AI in the RV industry. The panelists expressed optimism about AI’s ability to simplify and enhance data analysis. They discussed how AI could prompt users with relevant questions and insights based on their data, making data analysis more accessible and efficient for RV park owners. The panelists also touched on the legal implications of data scraping, a method used to extract large amounts of data from websites. While data scraping is not illegal, the panelists acknowledged that it is a gray area that needs to be navigated carefully. They emphasized the importance of understanding the legal landscape when using data scraping for business intelligence. The discussion also delved into the role of management companies in the RV industry. The panelists noted that many RV park owners do not have the time or expertise to conduct in-depth data analysis. As such, they can benefit from partnering with management companies that specialize in data analysis and can deliver valuable insights. The panelists also highlighted the need for education in the RV industry about data analysis and AI. They noted that many RV park owners may not fully understand the value of these tools and may need guidance on how to leverage them effectively. The panelists called for more webinars and educational resources to help RV park owners understand and utilize data analysis and AI. Towards the end of the discussion, the panelists expressed their hope for the future of the RV industry. They envisioned a future where data analysis and AI are integral parts of the industry, helping RV park owners make informed decisions and drive business growth. The latest episode of MC Fireside Chats offered valuable insights into the role of data and AI in the RV industry. The panelists highlighted the potential of these tools in revolutionizing the industry and called for more education and resources to help RV park owners leverage them effectively. The MC Fireside Chats series continues to be a platform for thought leaders in the outdoor hospitality industry to share their insights and discuss the latest trends and developments. As the RV industry continues to evolve, these discussions will undoubtedly play a crucial role in shaping its future.
MC Fireside Chats this week we were joined by Christina.
July 5, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – July 5th, 2023

July 5 Episode Recap In the previous episode of MC Fireside Chats episode presented by Horizon Outdoor Hospitality hosted by Brian Searl, the discussion started about the departure of co-host Cara due to her increased responsibilities at CCRVC. Brian together with the recurring guests touched upon the occupancy rates of their properties during the July 4th holiday, with the high temperatures and weather conditions impacting the rates. Sandy shared that the midweek placement of the holiday and harsh weather led to lower than expected occupancy rates. Brian warned about the danger of attributing lower occupancies to external circumstances, advocating for addressing the core issues. Christine informed that Memorial Day and Labor Day holidays usually have better occupancy rates due to their weekend placement. Mike introduced data from CampSpot indicating increased park bookings in June and predicted steady occupancy for Q4. They also discussed the US consumer confidence spike in June and factors contributing to it, such as stabilized gas prices and softened inflation. They then discussed the state of the economy, small businesses, public perception, and issues within the park industry. Christine raised some problems she encountered in parks like disgruntled guests causing problems and increased employment lawsuits. The group also discussed the trend of guests abandoning their old rigs in parks and brainstormed possible proactive solutions, such as requiring annual inspections or setting age limits on rigs. The conversation then shifted towards the industry innovation award proposed by Sandy, intended to recognize unique advancements within their industry. While Mike and Sandy argued that the awards could raise industry standards by promoting innovation, Brian expressed concerns about award saturation and the value of such recognitions. Brian also raised a concern about the self-nomination process commonly employed in these types of awards. Electric vehicles (EVs) and their impact on the camping industry also featured in the discussion. Brian emphasized the necessity of accepting the transition towards EVs. Sandy pointed out the benefits of EV charging stations at RV parks as a revenue stream and marketing opportunity. However, the lack of widespread understanding and appreciation of EVs within the industry was also addressed. In terms of individual experiences, Christine shared her journey dealing with customer service and transitioning into a new managerial role at a long-standing campground. Mike discussed strategies for leveraging a park’s identity and legacy for marketing purposes. He also shared his experience of hosting themed weekend events to attract visitors to RV parks and discussed new initiatives like farmers’ markets. Sandy then discussed her successful attempts to encourage camping even in high heat by theming weekends, introducing activities like foam parties, and using a bundled payment model for activities. She also shared her insights on the potential of agritourism, drawing from her experiences with a park in central Florida. However, a humorous suggestion about hosting an “outrun the gator weekend” was advised against due to potential liability issues. The chat concluded with the hosts expressing their gratitude for the active participation of the guests and a teaser for a future episode on glamping. The discussions were centered around various aspects of camping and RV resorts, with a focus on occupancy rates, consumer behavior, industry trends, and innovative solutions to existing challenges.
On June 7th, 2023, MC Fireside Chats this week featured a special guest, Sarah.
June 7, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – June 7th, 2023

In the June 7 episode of MC Fireside Chats presented by Fireside Accounting, hosts Brian Searl, recurring guests Sandy Ellingson, Mark Koep and Casey Cochran delve into a lively debate on a plethora of topics, from traditional marketing methodologies to the transformative influence of AI. The conversation starts with the campground maps and the efficacy of their surrounding advertisements. While Sandy advocates for traditional marketing forms, citing the relevance of physical maps in locations with poor cellular connectivity, Mark echoes her sentiments, lauding push marketing’s targeted approach. Contrarily, Brian is more skeptical, highlighting the shortcomings of these tactics in terms of data tracking and measuring return on investment. Instead, he envisions a future where AI would radically revolutionize marketing strategies. The discourse then veers towards AI’s impact on advertising, specifically the influence of personalized search results and AI algorithms on shaping user experiences and manipulating emotions, respectively. Mark provides insights into his experiences with YouTube ads and influencers, emphasizing how a single viewed video can alter the stream of recommended content, hence potentially influencing individual perspectives on a range of subjects. Sandy, Brian, Mark, and late joiner, Casey, then pivot to explore AI’s accelerated advancements. Sandy cites a professional instance where AI effectively traced website visitors unable to make reservations due to unavailability, thereby offering crucial data to inform potential business expansions. Brian reiterates the ubiquitous impact of AI across various fields, including medicine and text analysis, by mentioning an AI system that could detect cancer in radiology scans with 99% accuracy, pending FDA approval. Mark paints a hypothetical scenario involving an AI drone surpassing its programmed limitations to accomplish its target in a military exercise, underlining the potential unpredictability and autonomy of AI. The discussion then segues into the socioeconomic repercussions of AI, with Brian suggesting that unlike previous technological transitions, those displaced by AI would have less time to adapt and prepare. Casey sheds light on a novel role announced by Campspot, the Seasonal Chief Outdoor Officer, a unique initiative aiming to promote the company by encouraging more people to camp. Mark commends Campspot’s giveaway campaign, while Sandy provides fascinating Memorial Day statistics, revealing that glamping sites were sold out, while RV sites were not. Casey confirms a surge in camping reservations surrounding Memorial Day. Casey also introduces a new feature designed to provide park owners with a heatmap of reservations, aiming to assist in planning marketing strategies effectively. Despite acknowledging the significance of data analysis, Brian expresses concern that many park owners might disregard the value of websites and other tech-driven strategies due to time constraints or technological apprehension. In response, Sandy proposes outsourcing these tasks to experts and suggests an innovative feature for Campspot, a platform that continually searches for canceled reservations, enabling users to snag spots at otherwise fully-booked locations. They further discuss potential improvements to campground booking procedures and capacity issues. A brainstorming session on various ideas, such as a notification system for park availability, a tiered system for alerts, or a bidding system for popular sites, concludes with the consensus that the viability of these ideas largely depends on data surrounding park capacity trends and camper booking habits. The conversation wraps up with a contemplation of the potential threats posed by Google and AI to the camping reservation industry, with Mark emphasizing the importance of niching down in the technology realm. Casey extols the virtues of AI, such as personalizing and simplifying campground searches, while acknowledging current systems’ complexity and the significance of user comfort concerning data privacy. Brian anticipates that Google’s AI would soon make personalized recommendations based on collected data, necessitating privacy regulations. Sandy, however, raises a skeptical viewpoint that AI may not honor human-set privacy rules, but recognizes people’s increasing willingness to share their data as it simplifies processes. Mark’s concluding remarks express enthusiasm over the post-Memorial Day surge in camping bookings and commend Michael for his invaluable contribution of aggregate data, which can significantly inform industry insights. Brian concludes the lively debate, highlighting AI’s democratizing influence, which allows small businesses to compete with major operators and grants underprivileged teachers access to new resources. In this wide-ranging conversation, the group not only underscores the transformative potential of AI and data analysis The conversation concludes with Mark reflecting optimistically on the uptick in camping reservations following Memorial Day and commending Michael for contributing valuable industry data insights. Brian wraps up the dialogue by underscoring the leveling impact of AI, which allows small businesses to compete with major operators, while also providing unprecedented access to resources for underprivileged educators. Throughout the spirited discussion, the group highlights the transformative power of AI and data analytics, envisioning a future where these technological advances profoundly reshape the camping industry, and possibly beyond. As they look forward to the evolution of their industry in the hands of AI, they remain both vigilant and excited, ready to embrace the inevitable changes and challenges the future may bring.
May 3, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – May 3rd, 2023

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Mc Fireside Chats - this week we're joined by Mary Harrison on April 5, 2023.
April 5, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – April 5, 2023

April 5 Episode Recap During last week’s open discussion show sponsored by Fireside Accounting, Hosts Brian Searl and Cara Czismadia were accompanied by Mike Harrison from CRR Lifestyle and Christine Taylor from Towne Law Firm. Mike began the discussion by sharing insights on CRR’s third-party management service, which focuses on experiential hospitality and revenue enhancement through data and analytics. He highlighted that their service is unique as their primary objective is to drive owner profit, NOI, and asset value by concentrating on revenue enhancement through various means such as marketing, experiences, activities, and ancillary services. Christine provided valuable insights into employment law, emphasizing the importance of having clear policies and procedures in place to ensure physical and emotional safety in the workplace, prevent harassment and discrimination, and minimize legal liability. Brian and Mike also discussed the challenges of operations in the camping industry and how it can impact employee satisfaction. The conversation then shifted to AI technology and its potential in various industries, including the hospitality industry. They discussed a VR resort that can’t be insured, AI-generated videos, and their AI chatbot for customer service. The speakers also touched on potential legal issues with the chatbot and the need for proper terms and conditions. As the episode concluded, Brian and Christine discussed the impact of AI on various industries, including law and outdoor hospitality. They talked about how AI can help speed up processes, increase efficiency, and improve customer service. The conversation ended with a discussion about the ChatGPT plugin and how it can be used to connect different apps and automate tasks, such as booking reservations and ordering food. Overall, the discussion was rich in insights and perspectives, providing valuable information for anyone interested in the outdoor hospitality industry, employment law, and AI technology. The hosts and recurring guests all expressed their excitement about the possibilities of AI and encouraged others to embrace it while also acknowledging potential legal and ethical issues that may arise.
On February 1st, 2023, MC Fireside Chats held their weekly session with special guest Scott.
February 1, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – February 1st, 2023

In this week’s episode of MC Fireside Chats, sponsored by Fireside Accounting, Host Brian Searl, along with a panel of experts, discusses the future of the campground industry and the impact of technology on it. The panel to discuss the latest trends and developments in the industry are RV Industry Consultant Sandy Ellingson, Campspot Software Vice President of Business Development Casey Cochran, Horizon Outdoor Hospitality CEO & Owner Scott Foos, and CampgroundViews.com Founder & CEO Mark Koep. During the show, the group provided a comprehensive overview of the state of the campground industry and where it needs to go this year. They agreed that 2023 would be the “year of the marketer,” discussing how parks need to have the ability to adapt to the new audience and use effective digital marketing to succeed. They also talked about how the uniqueness of the properties and locations would have an impact on the campers’ booking patterns and how the industry changed in that aspect, like shorter booking windows. Sandy Ellingson, who attended the recent Tampa RV & Camping Show, reported that the industry is thriving despite what the people in the industry say about the economy. She said the event had more qualified buyers, more rig innovations, and an increased number of campgrounds having booths. She advises manufacturers to change their language to match the current state of the industry. The panel also discussed the future of online bookings for camping sites. They examine the potential impact of AI-powered search engines like Bing and Google on the industry and discuss the role of online travel agencies (OTAs) in the future. Brian predicts that websites will not be relevant in 20 years, while Sandy believes they will still play a role. In addition to online bookings, the panel also explores the impact of AI on the camping industry. They believe that implementing AI in search engines such as Google and Bing will force people to adapt faster and create an arms race in the market. They also touch on the idea of a marketplace for the camping industry, where some platforms might offer only some of the benefits a park provides, like tokenized credit card payments and security deposits. These flaws may force parks to integrate with other platforms like Airbnb and VRBO. “MC Fireside Chats” provides an insightful and engaging look into the future of the camping industry, providing listeners with a glimpse into the latest trends and developments in the sector. The episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the camping industry’s future and technology’s impact on the sector.
MC Fireside Chats - this week we were joined by Carolyn on January 4th.
January 4, 2023

MC Fireside Chats – January 4th, 2023

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, outdoor hospitality experts discussed various trends and provided insights regarding the sector. The discussion kicked off on how businesses can prepare for and come back from a long break like the recently concluded holiday break and how culture can define a company for its employees. One way to reward staff for their contributions is to give them a break they deserve. The group noted that executives chose their work when they started the business and, therefore, may have to work during the holiday break. “So it’s different. Like, and I told this to people I talked to today. It’s different for me. I’m the owner. I signed up to do it. Randy’s the owner; he signed up to do it. Mark’s the owner; he signed up to do it,” Brian Searl said. Randy Hendrickson, Founder & CEO of the Intrepid Group, suggested improving the company’s culture, including managing staff and creating a positive work environment and customer service. Casey Cochran, the Vice President of Business Development at Campspot Software, emphasized the importance of setting expectations for the reality of the day-to-day job of being an executive and owning a business and how this can benefit the company. Randy also pointed out that people stay with a company not just for the brand but for the managers leading them and that a healthy culture and leaders who reflect that culture is key to success. “It’s also interesting, I mean, there’s a number of studies I’ve read over the years that people don’t always stay with the company because of the company brand itself. They stay because of the relationship they have with their immediate supervisor,” he said. “And when you think about that, kind of makes a lot of sense, right? Because they’re not reporting to the brand every day, they’re reporting through their immediate supervisor. So there’s also kind of a top-down thing. I think the culture is paramount, absolutely paramount.” Casey noted that money matters as employees still need to make ends meet at the end of the day, and that incentivizing staff could lead to increased revenue for the company and improved behavior among the people. Mark Koep, Founder & CEO of CampgroundViews.com, added that incentivizing staff encourages them to work more, not just the required deliverables and tasks assigned to them. Randy emphasized that a company’s culture is not just about its size but about its mission. Casey also mentioned the importance of finding the proper role for staff members, considering their strengths and capacity to fill a need, especially during times of change. The discussion then shifted to how the RV Industry would fair this year. Mark said a recent RVIA report showed data that wholesale numbers are down as 2022 ends and asked if international tourists can either save or balance the numbers to help the industry. Brian Searl, the host of MC Fireside Chats, mentioned that RV sales might be low, but they are still higher than pre-pandemic levels, according to an RVDA representative the show had last December 21. “[RVDA representative] said, you know, that yes, RV sales are down, but what they’re really doing is normalizing from 2019 over pre-pandemic. Right. And maybe that’s a buzzword; maybe it’s not. I tend to believe him based on the numbers that I’m looking at. Cause you can see they’re up still over 2019, even though they’re down 50% now,” he said. Randy emphasized that RVs are not just for camping but can also be used for traveling and accommodation while traveling around the country and that this trend is driven by demographic and customer behavior changes. Casey mentioned the impact of the shift to remote work on many businesses and the need for companies to adapt to this change in terms of finances and logistics. “Now, I think all of us would agree that we’re big components of remote work. But if that was to change, then I think you could maybe see, okay, this could affect our midweek stays even, you know, further because there’s not as many people that are able to do kind of that flexible workspace,” he said.
MC Fireside Chats this week were joined by Fireside Accounting for our discussion on December 7th.
December 7, 2022

MC Fireside Chats – December 7th, 2022

In this week’s episode of MC Fireside Chats, we welcome Jenna Celmer from Basecamp as a special guest host. Over the years, the RV, campground, and outdoor hospitality industries have seen significant growth. From primitive sites with no cell reception to reserving sites over the phone, campers can now experience the great outdoors by booking online to different accommodations based on their needs and preferences. Guest experts from the industry talked about experiential hospitality and the work culture in the RV and campground industries. Celmer asked the experts about their fondest memory of their time in the industry, and most of the experts shared how they started and how they fell in love with the industry’s work culture. Randy Hendrickson, founder & CEO of The Intrepid Group, shared that the industry’s “care gene” keeps him moving forward. According to Scott Foos, CEO & owner of Horizon Outdoor Hospitality, it is vital to have that team-first mentality and ensure that team members are well taken care of. “The more that you really think about investing in your team, and the more that you truly understand that your team drives your business,” Foos added. The conversion focused on experiential hospitality and how the industry is gearing towards providing good customer service or guest service. For RV Industry Consultant Sandy Ellingson, it is essential to understand the meaning of experiential camping to get the guests there. “We are moving into a season where we are competing across so many different kinds of markets now, especially with the growth of glamping and some of the things we’re seeing there, that understanding the definition of experiential Camping and understanding what that is is super important just to help get the guests there for the first time,” Ellingson said. Mark Koep, Founder & CEO of CampgroundViews.com, emphasized that communicating with guests is important to provide a unique experience. Casey Cochran, vice president of Business Development at Campspot Software, talked about how creating a culture and providing the ‘experience’ starts within the staff and team members.
On July 6th, 2022, MC Fireside Chats had a special guest appearance by Sarah.
October 5, 2022

MC Fireside Chats – October 5th, 2022

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, sponsored by Fireside Accounting, we broadcasted live from the Glamping Show USA! We discovered what was new that year and discussed the latest industry news in our open discussion format. MC Fireside Chats was joined by Sacha Macey of Yurts for Life, Connor Schwab of Sage Outdoor Advisory, Zachary Stoltenberg of Clockwork, and Nick Purslow of Glampitect. MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show focused on the latest news, trends, and commentary from the Outdoor Hospitality Industry, was hosted by Brian Searl and Cara Csizmadia. The show was available live on Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube, and is now available to listen as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, Audible, and more.

Recurring Guests

Scott Bahr

Scott Bahr

Cairn Consulting Group
Simon Neal

Simon Neal

CampMap
Miguel Huerta

Miguel Huerta

Mexican Glamping Association
Rafael Correa

Rafael Correa

Blue Water Development
Eleonore Hamm

Eleonore Hamm

RVDA Canada
Phil Ingrassia

Phil Ingrassia

RVDA
Michael Moore

Michael Moore

Texas Association of Campground Owners (TACO)

Week 2 - Building Park Value

The second Wednesday of the month focuses on how to build and evaluate park equity physically, operationally, and financially. With insights from designers, operational experts, active park owners, and valuation specialists, this episode covers physical master planning, strategic amenity investments, revenue generation, market valuation, and how to maximize the price your property commands when it’s time to sell.

September 9, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – September 9th, 2026

During the September 9, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry leaders and the owners of Prairie Junction RV Resort highlighted how shifting the focus from basic accommodations to hyper-curated, themed guest experiences—supported by low-cost experiential amenities, modernized technology, and a deeply empowered staff—can drive massive guest loyalty and operational success.
August 12, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – August 12th, 2026

In the August 12, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry leaders emphasized that as the outdoor hospitality market faces softening transient RV demand and rising financial pressures, operators must strategically adapt their accommodation mixes and relentlessly prioritize genuine guest connections to maintain profitability.
July 8, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – July 8th, 2026

In the July 8, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts explored strategies for thriving in the evolving outdoor hospitality market, emphasizing the success of targeting underserved niches, the practical necessity of grid-tied infrastructure over off-grid setups, and the profitability of pivoting to high-value, curated group retreats.
June 10, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – June 10th, 2026

The June 10th, 2026 episode of MC Fireside Chats highlights how outdoor hospitality operators can actively drive occupancy by leveraging targeted social media content, hyper-specific buyer personas, and AI-discoverable local features. The panel also addresses tightening macroeconomic trends, concluding that operators must double down on proactive marketing to capture travelers shifting from costly flights to road trips.
May 13, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – May 13th, 2026

Hosted by Brian Searl, this episode of MC Fireside Chats featured Jeremy Johnson and Zach Stoltenberg discussing the complexities of dynamic pricing and the industry’s shift toward non-RV accommodations. Meanwhile, special guests Travis Chambers and Joy de Vos highlighted the growing demand for experiential travel by sharing their unique, immersive projects—ranging from cinematic, off-grid micro-resorts to educational, working dairy farms.
April 8, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – April 8th, 2026

The April 8th, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats featured industry leaders discussing the critical balance between implementing highly intuitive automated tech and preserving the authentic outdoor experience. The panel highlighted actionable strategies for maximizing revenue and tax benefits through premium cabin investments, while navigating upcoming challenges in Class A fire regulations, site-specific architectural design, and ADA accessibility.
March 11, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – March 11th, 2026

Host Brian Searl led an industry-focused discussion with experts Jayne Cohen, Casey Cochran, Jeremy Johnson, Shawn Verbrugghe, and Serg Mashkov to explore how economic shifts, luxury accommodation trends, and unique experiential programming are redefining the future of outdoor hospitality.
February 12, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – February 12th, 2026

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, Joe Duemig hosts John McMahon of Camp Door County, who shares how his new resort uses “intentional” guest experiences like mushroom foraging, stargazing, and mountain bike trails to build a unique brand identity. The panel, including Casey Cochran and Zach Stoltenberg, discusses how these curated activities and strategic local partnerships drive transient demand and guest loyalty without relying solely on traditional amenities or aggressive price discounting.
January 14, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – January 14th, 2026

The first Guest Experience episode of MC Fireside Chats in 2026 brought together U.S. and UK industry leaders to examine land use economics, guest segmentation, and how differing markets approach revenue, design, and experience. The panel agreed that future growth depends less on uniform luxury builds and more on aligning amenities, add-on revenue, and immersive, nature-driven experiences with clearly defined guest expectations, supported by smarter use of data.

Recurring Guests

Tom Mason, IVEE Group

Tom Mason

IVEE Group
Zach Stoltenberg, Clockwork

Zach Stoltenberg

Clockwork

Landan Dory

North Star Brokerage & Advisory

Jayne Cohen, Campground Consulting Group

Jayne Cohen

Campground Consulting Group

Scott Foos, Horizon Outdoor Hospitality

Scott Foos

Horizon Outdoor Hospitality
Jeremy Johnson, Kona Hills Campground

Jeremy Johnson

Kona Hills Campground
Kaleigh Day, Surf Junction Campground

Kaleigh Day

Surf Junction Campground

Week 3 - Business Operations and Management

On the third Wednesday, we tackle the operational side of running a successful campground. This episode features operations consultants and experts discussing strategies for staff management, technology integration, and maintaining profitability while navigating challenges.

December 17, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – December 17th, 2025

In this final episode of 2025, host Brian Searl and a panel of industry experts review the year’s milestones, discussing advancements in market data, product innovations, and the rising popularity of immersive agrotourism. The group also engages in a lively debate on leveraging AI for marketing and photography, ultimately predicting that 2026 will be a pivotal year defined by unique guest experiences and renewed occupancy growth.
November 19, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – November 19th, 2025

The special episode of MC Fireside Chats was hosted live by Brian Searl at the KOA Convention in Raleigh, North Carolina, on November 19, 2025. The panel—Matt Stovold, Gwyn Wathen, Ryan McPeek, Camille McPeek, Samantha Chipperfield, and Mike Harrison—discussed conference takeaways, networking, cabin ROI, and their plans for leveraging AI and revenue management in 2026. The conversation also explored franchise support, KOA’s community, unique campground activities, and sustainable development, with each guest sharing their personal insights on the outdoor hospitality industry.
October 15, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – October 15th, 2025

The latest MC Fireside Chats episode, featuring host Brian Searl, Scott Foos, and guests Sangeetha Ramkumar and Hannah Terry, synthesized insights on the outdoor hospitality market’s major shifts, including the new NEC code and the Marriott Outdoor Collection. The central discussion focused on how operators must balance high-end design and efficiency (Dunya Camp) with unique, activity-driven experiences on smaller, working farms (Wildwoodland Retreat) to achieve profitability and meet evolving guest expectations.
September 17, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – September 17th, 2025

During the MC Fireside Chats, host Rafael Correa and guests Jeff Hoffman, Mike Harrison, and Sandy Ellingson discussed the state of the outdoor hospitality industry, covering the slow 2025 season, the importance of innovation in technology and marketing, and the controversial shift towards long-term stays. The panel also debated the challenges of attracting new campers and the need for the industry to adapt its business models to remain competitive.
August 20, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – August 20th, 2025

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, industry experts discussed new tax benefits for campground owners and RV buyers, the importance of focusing on guest experience over simply adding amenities, and the crucial role of technology and strategic planning in business growth.
July 16, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – July 16th, 2025

On the July 16th episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed back Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality and Sandy Ellingson, a consultant in the RV industry. Robert Preston, founder and CEO of Unhitched RV and Management, joined as a new recurring guest. Angele Miller, owner of Creekside RnR Glamping, and Britt Roth, co-owner of Dark Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah, also joined the discussion. The chat began with introductions. Mike Harrison, COO of CRR Hospitality, explained their focus on owning, managing, and consulting for RV and glamping resorts. He mentioned an upcoming cruise to Alaska from Vancouver. Sandy Ellingson described her primary role as a liaison between the RV industry and campgrounds, leveraging her background in technology and strategy. She enjoys semi-retirement, picking and choosing her clients. Robert Preston introduced Unhitched RV and Management, which owns, operates, and develops RV parks primarily in the Southeast, also offering third-party management and consulting. A significant portion of the discussion revolved around the role of AI in the RV and camping industry. Mike Harrison announced the imminent launch of “Rigsby Live” (soon to be “Campy Live”), an AI voice reservation agent. He believes this will revolutionize the industry by eliminating busy signals and allowing 24/7 reservations, integrating with platforms like CampSpot. He noted that this technology is ahead of even the hotel industry. Brian Searl added that this AI can handle full reservations, check availability, provide site types, and send payment links, aiming to replace standard phone representatives. Robert Preston shared that Unhitched RV primarily uses AI on the backend for data aggregation, particularly for deep dives into rates, comps, and occupancies for acquisitions, as well as for power consumption and utility metering. He acknowledged a deficit of institutionalized data in the RV industry compared to others like multifamily, where CoStar provides vast amounts of detailed information. He emphasized that AI currently helps them gather data quickly, but human interpretation is still crucial for valuable, specific output. Sandy Ellingson expanded on the data challenge, stating that the existing data is often “dirty.” She explained that AI struggles to differentiate between transient, long-term stay, and 55+ RV parks, leading to diluted data when merged. Robert Preston agreed, highlighting the industry’s lack of clear definitions for “campground,” “park,” and “resort,” contributing to poor data quality. Mike Harrison mentioned that OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry) is now actively working to normalize and aggregate data, categorizing campgrounds to help with investment and analytical reflection, and to facilitate tax code changes for REITs. This process is expected to take 12-18 months. The conversation shifted to takeaways from the July 4th holiday weekend and changing camper behaviors. Sandy Ellingson noted the absence of a “norm” in bookings; some parks were anxious about not selling out but then did so last minute, indicating a shrinking booking window. She observed parks offering creative incentives like extended stays with flexible arrival/departure times. Campers, she noted, appreciate the ability to make last-minute decisions. She also highlighted an increasing demand for tent camping and car camping sites, redefining entry-level camping experiences, with expensive, high-tech car setups blurring the lines with traditional RVs. Brian Searl questioned the traditional reluctance of campgrounds to accept tent campers, especially given the evolving nature of camping and the need to be strategic in a more competitive market. Sandy Ellingson used the “roast” analogy to illustrate how outdated practices, like refusing tent campers, persist without understanding their modern evolution. She emphasized that a new generation of campers, including those exploring “gateway drugs” into camping like car camping, needs to be considered. Angele Miller shared that her glamping resort has seen a shift towards more European and Eastern US visitors, remaining fully booked due to being in a highly touristic region with a lack of accommodation. Robert Preston discussed their focus on multi-generational camping, planning new developments to integrate RV sites with cabins or lodging units nearby to accommodate families with varying preferences. He also touched on the current market reality for park owners, noting a shift from the inflated valuations of 2021-2022. Owners are now making decisions to sell, move to third-party management, or continue operating, facing a choice between retaining control and leveraging professional expertise or seeking an exit. He highlighted time, energy, and talent as primary drivers for owners considering third-party management or selling. Mike Harrison added profitability as another key factor, suggesting that professional management can drive more revenue. He acknowledged the “conundrum” for smaller mom-and-pop campgrounds that might find management fees cost-prohibitive. The discussion moved to the acceptance of tent camping in upscale resorts. Mike Harrison stated that CRR Hospitality is not resistant to tent camping and is actively exploring creating dedicated sections for them in larger properties, especially as the market becomes more competitive. He emphasized that tent campers can still be affluent and contribute positively to a campground. Britt Roth from Dark Sky RV Campground shared her experience, initially opening with tent camping but later converting those sites to electric-only due to negative experiences with rudeness, messiness, and demanding behavior from some tent campers. She emphasized creating a “boutique” experience focusing on small rigs, offering amenities like spa-like showers, yoga classes, and goat walks. The concept of customer experience and recurring guests was explored. Angele Miller highlighted that despite increased competition (over 55 glamping resorts in her province compared to three when she started), her resort remains fully booked by focusing on continuous innovation, exceptional customer service, and unique offerings. They streamline check-in with text messages, provide high-quality cooking amenities (Green Egg BBQs), offer hot tubs in every unit, and leverage local partnerships for unique experiences like lobster and oyster deliveries. They also cater to corporate retreats to fill off-peak times and prioritize personalized service, including handwritten welcome notes for returning guests. Robert Preston presented his “four by four” framework for managing properties: the four fundamental needs (safety, cleanliness, friendliness) that must be met, and the four operational buckets (technology, operations, facilities, marketing) to fulfill them. He stressed that while “sizzle” (unique attractions) draws guests once, the fundamentals ensure recurring visits and loyalty. He noted that some of their best-performing parks are not the prettiest but excel in creating a strong sense of community and culture. Mike Harrison echoed this, emphasizing “execute excellently” – getting the basics right for a seamless guest experience and avoiding “distractions.” He also highlighted “experiential hospitality,” leveraging each property’s unique “DNA” and a continuous drive for improvement. The panel also discussed the complexity of mixing different accommodation types like RVs and glamping. While Brian Searl initially suggested it might be harder, Mike Harrison and Robert Preston argued that it’s more about knowing your customer and ensuring the “right fit.” Robert Preston stressed that adding cabins or glamping units significantly changes operational and maintenance requirements, essentially adding different business lines that need to be managed distinctly. Angele Miller shared her decision not to mix glamping with RV/tent sites at her resort, as the clientele for each is vastly different, and introducing tenters could negatively impact the experience for her glamping guests who seek a higher price point and different atmosphere. She noted that national parks are introducing basic “authentic” glamping tents that appeal to a different segment. Sandy Ellingson offered a broader perspective, noting the blurring lines of terminology, where “glamping” can also describe RV camping for some. She believes there’s space for all types of experiences, but emphasized understanding one’s niche. She highlighted the core difference between campgrounds and hotels: the community and relationships built among campers, where guests interact and connect in unique ways not found elsewhere. This community aspect is, for her, the “heart” of the industry. Britt Roth reinforced the idea of “staying in your lane” – focusing on what you do best and are passionate about, and then creating a luxurious experience within that niche, rather than trying to compete on all fronts. The discussion concluded with a consensus that “staying in your lane” doesn’t mean stagnation but rather strategic expansion. As Robert Preston put it, you can “be in multiple lanes, but you can’t go down the road the opposite direction.” Sandy Ellingson clarified that staying in your lane “does not mean no change.” Britt Roth added that it’s about “creating the new lane” and reinventing what RVing or glamping can be, emphasizing the ever-evolving nature of the industry and the magic of creating unique experiences. Brian Searl expressed gratitude to the panelists for their insights.
June 19, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – June 18th, 2025

June 18th Episode Recap This episode of MC Fireside Chats, guest-hosted by Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, brought together a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality experts to discuss current trends, challenges, opportunities, and the unique aspects of their respective properties. The discussion highlighted the varied experiences within the campground industry, from long-standing family businesses to niche, destination-focused operations, and the ongoing impact of external factors like legislation and economic shifts. Mike Harrison, Chief Operating Officer of CRR Hospitality, introduced himself and his company, which owns, manages, and consults on outdoor hospitality assets. He expressed excitement about guest hosting and noted the show’s weekly rotation of panelists and topics, covering trends, markets, challenges, and opportunities. Jeff Hoffman, a founder of Camp Strategy, a consulting firm for campgrounds, shared his extensive experience, revealing he has owned his current campground since 1968, making him the most tenured in the group. His firm offers services from due diligence and feasibility studies to coaching for profitability. Kaleigh Day, owner of Surf Junction Campground in Ucluelet, BC, described her unique, forested property located near the Pacific Rim National Park Reserve. Her campground features traditional tenting and partially/full-service sites, along with amenities like hot tubs, a sauna, flush toilets, and hot showers. A key differentiator is her surf school, operating out of the national park, alongside surf rentals, a general store, and a coffee shop. The campground has about 90 campsites across 72 acres, utilizing about 40, keeping the rest wild. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction’s revenue model relies on a “trifecta” of camping, surf lessons, and surf rentals. Keeping camping prices relatively low helps attract more campers, especially in the shoulder season, with additional revenue generated from add-ons like coffee, merchandise, and crucially, surf lessons and rentals, often bundled in packages. She noted that the surf school builds community and loyalty, with campers returning annually and bringing friends and family. Kaleigh’s family acquired the pre-existing Surf Junction 13 years ago when it was smaller, and they have since expanded the offerings and visibility of the surf school. She highlighted the campground’s destination appeal, being a five-and-a-half-hour journey from Vancouver, involving a ferry and a long, winding road, meaning visitors specifically choose to come to them. Reservations open in January and are typically full for the summer by June. Stephen Saint Fort, owner of Fort Welikit Campground in Custer, South Dakota, described his 22-acre property just outside Custer, near Custer State Park and Black Hills National Forest. His campground has 100 sites, with 71 being RV sites ranging from 30-amp water and electric to 50-amp pull-throughs. A unique feature is that no two sites are alike, and the campground is heavily treed, with deer and turkey frequently seen. Stephen proudly introduced their “Camping barrels,” unique sleeping cabins that look like giant whiskey barrels, special-ordered from Norway. These barrels offer a mattress, electricity, a light, and a fan, positioned close to a bathhouse, and guests bring their own bedding. He decided to offer them as a more affordable, single-night option than full-service cabins, and they have been unexpectedly popular. Jeff Hoffman then discussed a concerning legislative trend in Ohio, where a bill could allow county commissioners to take two-thirds of bed tax revenue for discretionary use, rather than for the visitors bureau. He shared his experience on his county’s visitors bureau, which grew from $250,000 to $4 million in revenue, and now faces demands from the county. Mike Harrison echoed these concerns, citing similar issues in Arizona where a proposed five-point bed tax increase would make a small town’s taxes among the highest in the state, potentially driving visitors to less expensive, more developed cities. Both stressed the importance of industry involvement in local, state, and national associations to combat unregulated changes that could negatively impact properties. Jeff further illustrated this point with his personal experience building a bathhouse, which saw costs nearly double due to unexpected Ohio building codes for commercial structures, contrasting it with Stephen’s experience with barrels in the Dakotas where zoning might be less stringent. The conversation shifted to summer travel trends. Kaleigh Day noted an increase in bookings, especially in the shoulder season, with more Canadians staying within Canada and a significant rise in European visitors, particularly Germans and Dutch, who often rent RVs in the Rockies and finish their trips on Vancouver Island. She observed that tighter budgets might be leading more people to choose camping over expensive resorts. Stephen Saint Fort reported a slow May due to cold and rain. While his Canadian bookings seemed on track, he noted an influx of cancellations from Quebec specifically, but other provinces were still booking. His international bookings are higher, partly attributed to switching to an online booking company, Firefly, which simplifies the process for international travelers. The discussion also touched on the shrinking booking window, which both Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman confirmed has decreased by 20-30% year-on-year, leading to more last-minute bookings. This trend suggests shorter, closer-to-home vacations. Stephen Saint Fort, however, observed that while his bookings are fewer, the average length of stay has increased from 4-5 nights to 6-7 nights, indicating guests are staying longer to explore the many attractions in the Black Hills. Kaleigh Day, conversely, prefers shorter stays (2-3 days) to maximize surf rental and lesson opportunities. The unique identities and diverse markets of campgrounds were emphasized. Stephen Saint Fort highlighted the variety even within Custer, with 55 campgrounds within 15 miles, each catering to different guest needs, such as those prioritizing satellite TV over treed sites. Mike Harrison underscored the diversity not only in market but also in sophistication, contrasting Stephen’s recent adoption of online booking with his own properties’ long-standing reliance on it. He mentioned ongoing efforts to classify campgrounds by category to nationalize data for better trend analysis. The panelists then discussed the prevalence of RV rentals. Kaleigh estimated that perhaps a third to half of their RV guests are in rentals, particularly Europeans, and noted a new trend of locals Airbnbing their trailers and motorhomes. Stephen estimated around 10% of his guests use rentals, often international travelers using companies like Cruise America, and also locals through RV Share. Mike Harrison identified a significant industry gap in connecting RV renters directly with campgrounds for destinations. Stephen shared his strategy of building relationships with local RV Share owners and delivery drivers, who then recommend his campground. Jeff Hoffman concurred, noting the RV rental market is relatively new (about four years old) and stressed the need for RV share operators to understand that their renters must still adhere to campground rules. The conversation briefly veered into sports rivalries, with Kaleigh from Seattle (Seahawks fan), Stephen from Pittsburgh (Steelers fan), and Jeff from Ohio (Browns fan), adding a lighthearted moment. Mike Harrison then steered the discussion to strategies for boosting revenues. Kaleigh explained that Surf Junction diversifies revenue by heavily promoting surf lessons and rentals, incentivizing staff to upsell, and increasing marketing spend when sales are low. Stephen Saint Fort, benefiting from the self-selling Black Hills area, promotes his campground by attending travel shows and being involved with tourism organizations, noting an influx of visitors from states where he’s attended shows. He also works on improving their social media presence and collaborating with local influencers. Jeff Hoffman advised new parks to use industry data to identify their specific market niche and consider hiring marketing firms for deep dives. For established campgrounds like his, he explained that growth is harder, now aiming for 8% rather than 10-15%. They target marketing efforts to attendees of camping shows within a three-hour drive and leverage Google Ads. As a KOA partner, his campground benefits from national marketing, allowing them to focus locally, including marketing to visitors of nearby attractions like Cedar Point amusement park and new sports facilities. In their parting words, Stephen Saint Fort thanked everyone, reiterated the diversity of campgrounds, and offered Kaleigh advice. Jeff Hoffman also expressed gratitude, emphasized that “every campground’s different,” and offered his consulting services for initial chats without cost. Kaleigh Day found it “awesome” to chat with fellow campground operators, appreciating the insights and camaraderie within their niche career. Mike Harrison concluded by thanking all guests for their time and passion, highlighting the amazing opportunities and community within the outdoor hospitality industry.
May 21, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – May 21st, 2025

The May 21st, 2025 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, convened a panel of esteemed recurring and special guests to delve into pivotal topics within the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The familiar voices joining the conversation included Mike Harrison of CRR Hospitality, a company focused on owning and operating luxury upscale RV and glamping resorts, as well as providing third-party consulting. Ali Rasmussen, co-founder of Spacious Skies Campgrounds, which owns and operates campgrounds along the East Coast from Maine to Georgia, also returned, expressing enthusiasm for the upcoming season. Rounding out the recurring panel was Jeff Hoffman from Camp Strategy, a consulting firm dedicated to helping campground owners achieve profitability. This episode welcomed two special guests. Heidi Doyle from Utility Supply Group (USG) introduced her company as a key electrical distributor for the outdoor hospitality sector, serving RV parks, campgrounds, marinas, and glamping resorts. Heidi emphasized USG’s commitment to not just supplying products but also ensuring safety and compliance by actively working with the National Electric Code and UL standards for power outlets. The second special guest was Jim Omstrom, co-founder of Open Road Resorts. Jim shared that Open Road Resorts owns a growing portfolio of campgrounds across the United States, including locations near Dallas, Santa Fe, West Yellowstone, and Omaha, with a focus on acquiring and developing more properties. Before diving into the special guest segments, Brian prompted the recurring panelists for any pressing industry topics. Mike Harrison immediately highlighted the continued and accelerating growth of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the camping sector. He referenced a recent generational camping report indicating that 30% of campers have already used AI for search, a figure expected to rise to 75% in the coming years. Mike stressed the importance for industry players to stay ahead of the curve as generative search and Google’s prioritization of AI are set to revolutionize how campers find and book their stays. Jeff Hoffman echoed Mike’s sentiments, noting the rapid learning capabilities of AI and its daily improvements, particularly when actively trained. Ali Rasmussen added her experience, mentioning a demo she encountered built within ChatGPT that functioned as an itinerary and trip planner for one of their campground locations, showcasing the practical applications of AI for enhancing guest services. Beyond AI, Ali Rasmussen, also a board member of OHI (Outdoor Hospitality Industry), brought a critical legislative issue to the forefront: the Credit Card Competition Act. She explained that this bipartisan bill aims to address the duopoly of Visa and MasterCard, which has led to escalating credit card swipe fees – a significant expense for campground owners, often ranking in their top five operational costs. Ali detailed the unique impact on campgrounds, where multiple transactions (booking, changes, cancellations, re-bookings) can incur non-refundable swipe fees, even when guests are refunded. Mike Harrison and Jeff Hoffman shared that they had previously lobbied in Washington D.C. on this very issue, underscoring its importance. They urged listeners to visit OHI’s social media pages for links to contact their representatives and voice their support for the act, emphasizing that it affects all businesses accepting credit cards, not just RV parks. Heidi Doyle mentioned that for Utility Supply Group’s larger transactions, credit card fees are often passed on to the customer, while smaller orders’ fees are absorbed. Brian acknowledged the pervasiveness of these fees, even with third-party payment systems. The conversation then shifted to a deeper dive with the special guests. Heidi Doyle elaborated on Utility Supply Group’s long-standing presence in the industry, noting their 26-year history initiated by Wade Elliot. She explained USG’s unique approach of primarily connecting with customers through trade shows and conferences rather than traditional advertising, valuing their loyal customer base. A core philosophy for USG, instilled by Wade, is to be a resource and ensure customers get the right products, especially for those new to the industry or specific electrical components. Heidi highlighted their expertise in the National Electric Code and NFPA 1194, positioning USG as more than just a seller. Key products offered include pedestals, surface mount boxes, distribution panels, transformers, wire, site amenities like lighting, and increasingly, solutions for EV charging. She also discussed the growing importance of electrical metering (sub-metering) to help campgrounds recoup utility expenses and encourage conservation, differentiating between “dumb” meters requiring manual reads and “smart” meters that integrate with reservation systems. Jeff Hoffman inquired about the potential for USG to develop water metering solutions, to which Heidi responded that while they offer basic water meters, USG currently focuses on electrical distribution and is not primarily a software developer, though they are aware of companies like Wild Energy exploring integrated solutions. Next, Jim Omstrom shared the origin story of Open Road Resorts, which began as a “midlife crisis” entrepreneurial venture with his business partner, Chase, around 2018. Leveraging their backgrounds in public equity investment and a shared passion for the outdoors, they acquired their first park in Dallas. After a pause and operational refinement during the COVID-19 pandemic, Open Road Resorts partnered with consumer private equity fund L Catterton, RV manufacturer THOR Industries (owner of Airstream and Jayco), and two other family offices to fuel their growth. Jim articulated that the brand “Open Road Resorts” aims to address the inconsistent experiences often encountered in the RV park industry. While each park retains its unique local feel, the goal is to provide a consistently clean, safe, highly amenitized, and family-friendly environment with excellent customer service. When Brian asked about the 10-year vision, Jim stated the focus is on continued brand building, team expansion, and acquiring great parks to build a national network. Discussing operational approaches, Jim explained their model of having a General Manager at each park who reports to a central operations team. This sparked a broader discussion among the multi-park operators. Ali Rasmussen shared Spacious Skies Campgrounds’ journey, from initially attempting a model where regional managers also managed a home campground, to their current structure of three regional directors overseeing GMs and reporting directly to her. They’ve intentionally trimmed layers to maintain control and efficiency. Jeff Hoffman emphasized the importance of building a solid foundational structure for scalability, noting that while technology like cloud-based PMS and accounting systems has made remote management easier, finding the right people remains the biggest challenge. Mike Harrison added that there’s no one-size-fits-all operational model, and what works depends on the specific properties, revenue, and stage of growth, sharing that CRR Hospitality also pivots its structure based on circumstances. Ali Rasmussen then queried Jim Omstrom about the unique partnership with THOR Industries. Jim explained their pre-existing relationship with THOR’s management team from their public equity days. When Open Road Resorts decided to accelerate growth, they approached THOR, who saw an opportunity to strategically partner and help shape the campground experience, potentially testing new concepts. As an example, Jim mentioned an “Airstream-only” section, or “camp Airstream,” being piloted at their West Yellowstone park. This led to a discussion about the RVIA Campground Coalition’s efforts to foster communication between manufacturers and campground owners, particularly concerning the increasing size and electrical demands of new RVs, and how campgrounds, especially older ones, can keep pace with infrastructure needs. Heidi Doyle noted that, as of 2022, THOR had no immediate plans for 100-amp RVs, which would require new electrical pedestal designs. The final major topic was the significant advancements in AI search, spurred by recent Google I/O announcements. Brian presented a short video showcasing Google’s new “AI Mode,” a complete re-imagining of search that moves beyond the traditional 10 blue links to a personalized, generative AI-driven experience. This mode will allow for longer, more complex queries and even enable “agents” like Project Mariner to perform tasks on the user’s behalf, including making purchases. Brian stressed that this will dramatically impact how campgrounds are discovered and booked, affecting website traffic (likely decreasing overall traffic but increasing conversion rates of qualified leads) and user interaction. Heidi Doyle asked about the implications for keywords and search strategies. Brian explained that the shift is towards longer, conversational queries, and that AI itself will increasingly interpret and refine user intent, making traditional keyword targeting less relevant. The focus, he advised, should be on high-quality content, user experience, site architecture (like schema markup), and brand trust signals (like press releases and social mentions). Jim Omstrom inquired if anyone was exploring “AI SEO,” to which Mike Harrison and Brian confirmed they were actively working on these strategies, emphasizing that a blend of traditional SEO and new AI-focused approaches is currently necessary. The discussion highlighted the personalized nature of AI search results, with different users receiving different recommendations based on their implicit and explicit preferences, making foundational website best practices even more critical. As the episode concluded, each guest provided their final thoughts and where listeners could learn more about their respective organizations. Heidi Doyle directed listeners to Utility Supply Group’s presence in Woodall’s and their social media. Ali Rasmussen pointed to spaciousskiescampgrounds.com and their social channels, mentioning their current exciting phase of seeking new partners. Jeff Hoffman invited inquiries through campstrategy.com. Jim Omstrom encouraged visits to openroadresorts.com for information on their parks. Brian Searl wrapped up the show, thanking his guests and promoting his other podcast, Outwired, which would further delve into AI announcements and RV park guest demographics.
April 16, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – April 16th, 2025

April 16th Episode Recap The episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks, convened a diverse panel of industry professionals including recurring guests Jeff Hoffman (Camp Strategy), Mike Harrison (CRR Hospitality), and Sandy Ellingson (Industry Liaison/Consultant), alongside special guests Kurtis Wilkins (Private Equity Analyst, Rjourney), Jennifer L. Grissom (Co-Owner, Crystal River KOA), and Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen (Owner, ARK@Denali Campground Resort). The comprehensive discussion explored crucial aspects of the outdoor hospitality sector, focusing on operational strategies, the interpretation of market data, adapting to consumer shifts, and navigating the increasing trend of institutional investment. Brian Searl opened the show by introducing the panel and highlighting recent technological advancements from Insider Perks. He announced the rollout of Rigsby, their AI voice chatbot, which is now capable of handling reservations via chat and is soon expected to offer voice reservation capabilities. Brian emphasized that this innovation is poised to be a significant disruptor in the industry, providing 24/7 booking options and eliminating common issues like busy signals, acknowledging that early adoption may involve a testing phase. The conversation quickly turned to industry data, prompted by insights drawn from the KOA North American Camping Report. Sandy Ellingson shared her positive takeaways, noting substantial increases in camping households and high retention rates among campers who began during the pandemic. She also highlighted encouraging growth in specific accommodation types, such as a significant rise in tent usage. However, Sandy expressed concern that some parks were limiting tent camping, which she sees as a vital “onboarding” method for introducing younger generations to camping, and advocated for viewing tent and car camping as strategic tools. Providing additional perspective on the data, Mike Harrison and Kurtis Wilkins cautioned against solely comparing current figures to 2019 (pre-pandemic) growth, which naturally saw a massive surge. While acknowledging continued overall interest, they stressed the importance of analyzing recent year-over-year changes and noted signs of potential headwinds, including recent nationwide dips in consumer activity in Q1 and April. Kurtis specifically highlighted that Rjourney is observing tighter booking windows, making forecasting more challenging despite no overall drop in bookings. A key theme discussed was the need for campgrounds to adapt to the evolving consumer. Mike Harrison pointed out that demographic data in some CRR Hospitality resorts shows a nearly equal distribution across age groups (Baby Boomers to Gen Z), necessitating varied marketing strategies across different platforms to reach each segment effectively. He and Kurtis Wilkins stressed the importance of adopting “experiential hospitality” to make stays a lifestyle experience and utilizing technology for simple enhancements, not just complex systems, to cater to the modern traveler. Kurtis Wilkins emphasized that understanding each park’s specific demographic and location is crucial for effective microtargeting in marketing efforts, noting that even regional terminology like “campground” versus “RV park” matters. He stressed the critical need for operators to closely monitor operational data such as pace reports, leads, and conversion rates at a granular level to identify demographic shifts and pivot strategies quickly in response to market changes, including those influenced by external factors. Jennifer L. Grissom shared her firsthand experience as a new owner/developer of the Crystal River KOA, which opened recently. She spoke about the success of her first year, exceeding initial projections, but also highlighted the operational challenges posed by the current narrow booking window that complicates forecasting. Jennifer discussed her surprise regarding the volume of tent campers and the lessons learned about pricing and managing that segment, noting that higher price points sometimes attract specific demographics like elderly individuals seeking facility access. She strongly emphasized the invaluable support the KOA franchise provides through established operating systems, marketing, and brand recognition for a park of her size. Yolanda “Yo’EL” D’Oyen introduced her unique and ambitious project, ARK@Denali Campground Resort in Alaska. Describing herself as a visionary builder, Yo’EL is developing the property to leverage its unparalleled view of Mount Denali. She detailed her strategy to operate year-round, which is uncommon in Alaska, partly driven by a personal mission to provide a place of light and community during the long winter months. Yo’EL outlined diversified revenue streams beyond traditional RV sites, including capitalizing on tour bus traffic with a heated viewing deck and other amenities, and mentioned exploring funding options like USDA loans and phased development to include workforce housing for quicker revenue generation. The increasing trend of institutional investment and the entry of major hotel brands into the outdoor hospitality space were significant points of discussion. Kurtis Wilkins highlighted Rjourney’s recent success securing a CMBS loan that included transient revenue, a first of its kind, which he believes will pave the way for other RV parks to access similar institutional financing. Mike Harrison discussed how this trend, combined with potential future online distribution platforms for campgrounds, is professionalizing the industry, suggesting that independent parks must embrace “operational excellence” and differentiate themselves effectively to compete, a point echoed by Jeff Hoffman on finding one’s niche. Concluding the chat, Kurtis Wilkins used a memorable analogy: technology is the car, and data are the windows – you need the right tech systems (the car) but also need to look at your data (the windows) to know where you’re going. He called for more collective data sharing across the industry to better understand and compete in the evolving market. The overall sentiment was one of dynamic change, with significant opportunities for parks willing to adapt, understand their guests and market, and leverage technology and data to enhance operations and guest experience. Brian Searl invited listeners to continue the data discussion on his other podcast, Outwired.

Recurring Guests

Jeff Hoffman, Camp Strategy

Jeff Hoffman

Camp Strategy
Sandy Ellingson, RV Industry Advisor

Sandy Ellingson

RV Industry Advisor
Mike Harrison, CRR Hospitality

Mike Harrison

CRR Hospitality
Angele Miller, Creekside RnR Glamping

Angele Miller

Creekside RnR Glamping
Robert Preston, Unhitched Management

Robert Preston

Unhitched Management
Casey Cochran, Campspot

Casey Cochran

Campspot
John McMahon, Camp Door County RV Resort & Campground

John McMahon

Camp Door County RV Resort & Campground

Week 4 - Marketing, AI, and Technology

The fourth Wednesday of the month covers the latest tools and marketing strategies driving innovation in outdoor hospitality. Guests include marketing pros, AI experts, and tech providers exploring personalized marketing, smart technologies, digital engagement, and data-driven operations.

October 22, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – October 22nd, 2025

The latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, delved into Marketing, AI, and Technology in outdoor hospitality with guests Greg Emmert, Matt Whitermore, and Brent Parker. They concluded that AI’s most effective role is to be “invisible” to the guest, acting as a force multiplier to streamline operations and enable hyper-personalized service, ultimately enhancing the human experience and allowing guests to disconnect faster once they arrive.
September 24, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – September 24th, 2025

The September 24th episode of MC Fireside Chats covered the rapid acceleration of AI and robotics, emphasizing that outdoor hospitality operators must adopt seamless access control and localized data management to meet rising guest expectations and remain competitive in a rapidly changing industry.
August 27, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – August 27th, 2025

In an episode of MC Fireside Chats focused on marketing, AI, and technology, panelists Brian Searl, Cara Csizmadia, Ravi Parish, Nate Taylor, and Greg Emmert discussed how to balance the integration of new technologies with the crucial need for authenticity and human connection to build trust and ensure the long-term success of businesses in the outdoor hospitality industry.
July 23, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – July 23rd, 2025

In the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl of Insider Perks explores the intersection of marketing, AI, and the campground industry. He’s joined by recurring guests Mychele Bisson of Bison Peak Ventures and Kurtis Wilkins of Rjourney, along with special guests Jeremy Johnson, owner of Kona Hills Campground, and Kieron Wilde of First Nature and Fur Haven. Brian opens the show by welcoming Mychele, who was initially delayed in joining. He then sets the stage by highlighting the show’s focus on marketing and AI, noting the absence of regular guest Greg Emmert due to client commitments. Brian proceeds to introduce Kurtis and Mychele, jokingly stumbling over Mychele’s last name, “Bisson,” which leads to a lighthearted discussion about the pronunciation of French words and Brian’s preference for German. Mychele echoes his sentiment, finding French pronunciation “snotty.” Despite the playful jabs, all agree that French people are “beautiful.” Kurtis Wilkins of Rjourney, who manages and owns 43 campgrounds, speaks first, noting his company’s presence in the industry since 2017. Mychele Bisson then introduces herself as a relative newcomer, having owned six campgrounds from Alaska to Florida for almost two years, and actively growing her portfolio. Brian teases Mychele about potentially owning 800 parks in 16 years, attributing future growth to AI’s impact on systems. Jeremy Johnson, the owner of Kona Hills Campground in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, shares his five-year journey of permitting and entitlements to open his first 80-acre campground with 40 rustic tent camping sites on Lake Superior. He explains that his background in residential real estate investing, coupled with rising housing prices in Marquette, led him to pivot to campgrounds. Jeremy initially envisioned higher-end glamping with cabins but shifted to rustic tent and car camping due to Michigan’s state-level campground licensing requirements for more than two units for short-term stays. He emphasizes the desire to maintain immersion in nature while mindfully adding accommodations. He also shares his positive experiences with car campers, dispelling stereotypes about them being irresponsible, and notes the initial resistance from the local community who feared “homeless people.” Jeremy highlights the inherent demand for his campground due to its proximity to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore and the city of Marquette, both tourism hubs. He exclusively uses direct bookings through Park for reservations, having delisted from Hipcamp due to backend difficulties and communication challenges with self-service operations. Kieron Wilde, owner of First Nature, a destination management company and tour operator for the West Coast of North America, and Fur Haven, a glamping setup, discusses his 18 years in the industry. He explains that First Nature packages experiences with accommodations and attractions, often selling to tour operators. Kieron also shares his personal journey of relocating to the Columbia River Gorge and the permitting challenges he faced with his Fur Haven project, eventually finding a previously permitted Thousand Trails property. His vision for Fur Haven focuses on the mobility of its A-frame units, allowing them to be relocated seasonally to meet demand for events like concerts or large gatherings. Kieron elaborates on the diverse experiences First Nature offers in the Pacific Northwest, ranging from hiking and whitewater rafting to wine country tours and world-class skiing, emphasizing unique, high-level, and custom private experiences. He also highlights his company’s commitment to sustainability and regenerative tourism. The conversation then shifts to the future of the campground industry, particularly the overlooked opportunity for enhancing guest experiences. Mychele expresses her appreciation for the diversity within the industry, noting how different approaches, like Jeremy’s rustic camping or Kieron’s curated experiences, all thrive. She shares an example of her Alaska park, which, despite appearing like a “parking lot,” serves as a base for guests to explore the surrounding natural beauty of Valdez, leading to community-building events like fish fries. Jeremy elaborates on his future plans for Kona Hills, including developing an old rock quarry for ice climbing and leveraging its proximity to extensive mountain biking trails, drawing inspiration from Bentonville’s success. Kurtis chimes in, reinforcing the idea of unique experiences for each Rjourney campground and jokingly blames his unusual quietness on allergies and nearby wildfires in Washington. The discussion then pivots to the impact of AI on marketing and the industry. Brian introduces the new ChatGPT agent, which can perform actions like booking itineraries and checking calendars by connecting to personal data, calling it just the “beginning.” He then mentions Perplexity’s new browser, which runs locally on a computer, emphasizing that the future will involve AI making decisions based on website content without human interaction. Kurtis envisions a future where websites communicate via robust APIs with AI agents, facilitating bookings and reservations. Mychele shares her experience with a prop-AI business that uses AI for cold calling and lead generation, and an AI system called Manus that can book entire trips based on detailed user preferences. She stresses the importance of adapting to AI, noting that “mom and pop” campground owners who resist will be left behind. The panelists discuss the rapid pace of AI development, with Kurtis noting how quickly new technologies become “obsolete.” Mychele highlights the challenge of balancing traditional customer service with AI-driven efficiencies, believing that AI can free up staff to focus on human-centric customer service. Brian plays devil’s advocate, suggesting that even a robot could provide a “human experience” by fulfilling guest needs. The conversation touches on the broader societal implications of AI, including job displacement and the growing wealth gap. They express concern about the lack of public discourse on these issues and the rapid approach of “super-intelligence.” Mychele emphasizes the need for businesses to adapt to AI-driven search and booking methods to remain competitive. The episode concludes with Brian, Mychele, and Kurtis discussing the accelerating pace of AI development and its profound impact on all aspects of life. They muse about a future where humanoid robots could be commonplace and even become integrated into personal relationships. Mychele stresses that businesses must embrace AI to stay relevant, and Kurtis and Brian acknowledge the difficulty of keeping up with the rapid changes. Brian, acknowledging the extended discussion, wraps up the show by thanking his guests and promoting his other podcast, “Outwired,” which will continue the conversation on the future of campgrounds.
June 25, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – June 25th, 2025

In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, a new focus for the Week 4 show was introduced, shifting away from the RV industry to concentrate on marketing, AI, and technology. Host Brian Searl, CEO of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, opened the show by explaining this new direction and the reshuffling of some recurring guests. He noted that Phil from RVDA of America and Eleonore from RVDA of Canada would now appear on the Week 1 show, which covers data, trends, and analytics. Greg Emmert, the founder of Verio Outdoor Hospitality Consulting, was introduced by Brian, who joked that he was kept on the panel out of pity. Greg then introduced himself and his consulting firm, which helps clients build their operations “strategically and with soul.” He and Brian also made light of the new website Brian’s team is building for his company. Kurtis Wilkins, a new recurring guest from Rjourney RV Resorts and Advanced Outdoor Management, was welcomed to the show. He clarified that he goes by “Kurtis” professionally to distinguish himself from another “Kurtis” in his office. He explained that his company has 41 branded locations and over 12,000 RV pads, with a focus on front-end sales and the monetization of camping. Sam Dagenhard, the founder and CEO of Campfire Ranch, was introduced as a special guest. He described his company as an outdoor hospitality brand based in Gunnison, Colorado, which is building a collection of properties with a focus on “subscale” locations of 30 rooms or less. He said this allows for a high-touch, intimate experience where they can know guests by name. He also stated that his company offers a range of experiences from camping to backcountry trips, always located near prime outdoor recreation spots. Sam later revealed that he grew up RVing and camping and began putting his ideas on paper after moving to Los Angeles, where he found himself limited by state park and national forest campgrounds. He started organizing large, informal group camping trips to places like Joshua Tree, which inspired him to design an ideal campground for his generation. He took a leap in 2019, leaving his job in sports marketing at Red Bull to find his first location, intending to build a brand that would eventually span coast to coast and offer a unique, one-of-a-kind experience. The discussion began with a topic brought up by Kurtis Wilkins, who spoke about the transition from traditional SEO to what his team is calling “AEO,” or AI Engine Optimization. He noted that 13% of search traffic had recently been diverted away from Google, which is a significant change being discussed in many marketing departments. Brian Searl responded by sharing his belief that traditional SEO is “dead” because as AI gets smarter, it will be impossible to “trick” Google. He argued that the new focus should be on providing valuable content that AI systems can easily understand. He then asked Sam Dagenhard about his recent experience with a website redesign and SEO report. Sam said that in the beginning, SEO was all about inserting keywords into copy, which felt “wonky.” He has now learned that other factors like speed and security also play a role. He explained that his company is still young, and their initial website on Squarespace was a prototype for a 17-site campground where SEO happened “by accident.” As his company has grown, they are now transitioning to a more robust website and are in the copywriting phase. He found it interesting to see how much AI was already picking up about his business during a brand discovery audit. He believes it is crucial for his internal team to write the website copy to maintain the authentic, high-touch relationship they have with guests. Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Sam’s starting point, acknowledging that his experience with SEO 10 years ago was the same. He said that good SEO has always been about providing what Google wants and doing it in a structured way. He emphasized the importance of localized content and using backlinks from community groups like the Boy Scouts to build relevance. He noted that his current focus is on creating structured, targeted information, localized to the community and the user searching for it, regardless of their location. He expressed a desire to hear more from Brian on this. Greg Emmert offered a historical perspective on SEO, recalling his first website when people used Yahoo and a “web crawler” for search results. He admitted that he learned little about SEO and was more focused on daily operations like plunging toilets. He stated that his new website, built by Brian’s team, is being tailored for “LLM” (Large Language Model) searches, which he called “AEO,” a term he admitted to stealing from Kurtis. He explained that he is now focused on conversational, narrative-style writing that sounds like he is speaking, which he sees as the future of search. He also mentioned his recent experience with a different consulting company, noting how quickly the SEO landscape has changed in just two years. Brian Searl added to the discussion, emphasizing that everyday people don’t need to be SEO experts but should know enough to ask the right questions of their marketing partners. He suggested using tools like ChatGPT to learn the basics. He reinforced the idea that Google has always wanted websites to write for the user, and providing valuable, easy-to-understand content is key. He cited an example of a client’s property in Arizona, Verde Ranch RV Resort, where a page about bicycle rentals could help them win search queries from users and AI systems looking for that specific amenity in the area. He stressed that a page dedicated to a specific offering is far more powerful than a simple bullet point on an amenities list. Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Brian’s point about providing value, stating that Google’s core function is to be a good recommender for its users. He also mentioned that RV parks are “many businesses in one business,” and each component, from waterparks to gift shops, needs to be optimized for search. He added that “social proof” from reviews and listings also plays an increasingly important role. Brian agreed, highlighting that brand building, press releases, and social media conversations are crucial signals that AI uses to understand a business. Brian then invited Sam to elaborate on how Campfire Ranch got started. Sam explained his lifelong love for the outdoors, starting with RVing with his family. After moving to LA for a career in sports marketing with Red Bull, he felt a gap in the market for a campground designed for his generation. He started organizing group camping trips where he would rent and set up all the gear for friends, realizing the barrier to entry for camping was the equipment itself. This led to his business model, which focuses on providing gear and equipment. He also emphasized the importance of building community, noting he loves when guests line up for the bathroom because it encourages them to talk and make friends. He said that this high-touch approach has also led to partnerships with manufacturers like North Face who provide gear for rentals. He stated that Campfire Ranch is an “RV-free” campground, focusing on tent, car, and van camping. Greg Emmert praised Sam’s business model, calling it “underserved” and noting that car camping is on the rise. He commended Sam’s courage in creating a business that is different from the typical RV park model. Kurtis Wilkins added that while he loves tent campers, many local governments and municipalities prevent RV parks from offering tent camping or “van camping.” Sam replied that Campfire Ranch’s walk-in tent sites are priced at a premium because they offer the best views, proving that if you cater to tent campers and make them feel important, they will come. He said that this intentional design choice comes from understanding what customers want and that it is a great reality check against assumptions. Brian Searl concluded the main discussion by highlighting the difference between a business owner and an entrepreneur, noting the courage it takes to pursue a niche like Sam has. With the hour approaching, the panelists prepared to wrap up. Brian extended an invitation to Sam to become a recurring guest on the show, which Sam accepted. The show ended with Brian encouraging the audience to connect with Sam at Campfire Ranch, Kurtis at Rjourney, and Greg at his new consulting company, Verio. The group signed off, mentioning the upcoming Outwired podcast to discuss credit card fraud and heat safety.
May 28, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – May 28th, 2025

On May 28th, 2025, another insightful episode of MC Fireside Chats unfolded, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks and Modern Campground. This particular session was dedicated to the RV industry and outdoor recreation, bringing together a panel of recurring experts and special guests to dissect current trends, share operational experiences, and forecast future developments. Brian warmly welcomed the audience and introduced the day’s lineup, setting the stage for a comprehensive discussion that spanned from high-level industry statistics to on-the-ground business strategies. The episode featured its regular contributors from the RV Dealers Association (RVDA): Eleonore Hamm, President of RVDA of Canada, and Phil Ingrassia, President of RVDA of the US. Eleonore outlined her association’s focus on education, advocacy, and ensuring the profitability and sustainability of Canadian RV dealers. Phil echoed these sentiments, highlighting the US RVDA’s mission to support dealers and collaborate with manufacturers and suppliers on initiatives like the Go RVing program, which promotes the RV lifestyle in their respective countries. Their presence provided a crucial overview of the North American RV market landscape. Joining the seasoned regulars were two special guests making significant waves in their local outdoor hospitality sectors. Ilia Smirnov, owner of Cape Fear River Adventures and the Cozy Heron Glamping Resort, was introduced first. Located near Raleigh, North Carolina, Ilia’s businesses offer a unique blend of river-based activities and distinctive glamping accommodations. Following Ilia, Lisa Green, the General Manager of the Decatur Wheeler Lake KOA Campground in Alabama, shared her experiences. Lisa described her campground as an activity-driven destination, emphasizing her journey into the industry and the strategies she has employed. The discussion kicked off with an industry update from Phil Ingrassia and Eleonore Hamm. Phil shared that April’s wholesale RV shipments in the US saw a pleasant 4% increase compared to the previous year, though he noted that retail sales for April were not yet available and had been lagging slightly, with March retail sales down about 14% year-over-year, indicating an inventory build-up as dealers prepared for the season. He acknowledged that consumer sentiment, influenced by job prospects, the stock market, savings, and gas prices, plays a significant role in RV sales, predicting that the year would likely end up similar to the last. Eleonore Hamm provided the Canadian perspective, noting a similar trend where wholesale shipments outpaced retail sales. She explained that Canadian dealers had been rapidly building inventory due to concerns about tariffs and counter-tariffs, particularly the 25% counter-tariff on US-manufactured motorhomes that came into effect on April 9th, though towables were fortunately excluded. This uncertainty led to a cautious approach from dealers, with new unit sales down about 10% year-over-year by the end of March. Eleonore elaborated on the complexities of these tariffs, linked to HS codes where motorhomes are classified under automotive, and mentioned ongoing advocacy efforts to government to remove motorhomes from this tariff. Both Phil and Eleonore agreed that the late spring and early summer period is crucial for sales volume. Shifting to consumer behavior, Brian Searl inquired about RV ownership and usage. Phil Ingrassia revealed that data on RVs in operation, a proprietary number, has been growing consistently, even through the pandemic and beyond. He estimated that the number of RVs in operation has increased from around 3.5 million in 2010 to over 6.5 million currently. This indicates that people are holding onto their RVs and renewing registrations. He also mentioned that Go RVing research shows many pandemic buyers have developed a fondness for RV travel and intend to continue, debunking some fears of a mass exodus from the lifestyle. Approximately 1.5 million RVs were sold in North America during the pandemic peak, a significant boost to the installed base. The conversation then turned to Ilia Smirnov, who detailed his entrepreneurial journey. Cape Fear River Adventures, his flagship company, has been operating for 14 years, primarily offering self-guided canoe, kayak, paddleboard rentals, and lazy river tubing on the flat portions of the Cape Fear River. He humorously recounted finding the initial business for sale on Craigslist in 2012. The success of the river adventures paved the way for the Cozy Heron Glamping Resort, now in its third year. Ilia explained that his interest in creating a multi-day destination and the challenge of building on a floodplain led him to discover Conestoga wagons at a trade show, which became the unique lodging solution for his resort, offering a “bridge experience” for those new to the outdoors with comforts like AC and king-size beds. Lisa Green then shared her experiences since becoming the General Manager of the Decatur Wheeler Lake KOA in July of the previous year, a challenging start given her background was in food and beverage, not campground management. She identified that a primary hurdle was rebuilding relationships with staff and the community due to a lack of consistent, customer-service-oriented leadership prior to her arrival. Lisa emphasized the importance of community support and generating auxiliary income. She significantly increased local engagement, noting that previously only 2% of visitors were local, a number she has drastically improved. A key initiative was planning a large music festival featuring only local bands and vendors, which successfully sold out the entire campground well in advance and provided crucial off-season income. The discussion broadened to the importance of marketing and activities in attracting and retaining guests. Eleonore Hamm admitted that it wouldn’t typically occur to her to visit a campground for activities if she wasn’t camping there, highlighting a potential marketing gap. Lisa Green stressed that campgrounds need to offer more activities to engage the 12 to 18-year-old demographic, ensuring they develop positive camping memories that could lead them to become future RV buyers and enthusiasts. Phil Ingrassia concurred, noting that industry research consistently shows individuals who camped as children are significantly more predisposed to engage in RVing later in life, underscoring the value of investing in youth-focused programs and creating “sticky” outdoor experiences. As the episode drew to a close, the guests offered their final thoughts. Lisa Green encouraged everyone to “enjoy a day outdoors, you’ll remember it.” Ilia Smirnov expressed his continued commitment to finding new ways to get people outside and shared that his businesses can be found online at capefearadventures.com. Eleonore Hamm and Phil Ingrassia thanked Brian for the opportunity to hear from campground operators, finding the insights complementary to their perspectives from the RV dealer side. Brian Searl concluded the show, thanking all his guests for the rich conversation and promoting an upcoming podcast, “Outwired,” where he would delve deeper into data trends and consumer niches in the outdoor hospitality sector with Scott Bahr.
April 23, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – April 23rd, 2025

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, Brian Searl convened a panel of industry leaders and experts to explore the multifaceted dynamics of the RV and outdoor recreation sectors. The discussion featured recurring guests Eleonore Hamm from RVDA of Canada, Phil Ingrassia representing RVDA, and Greg Emmert, alongside special guest Eva Mitic, providing a range of perspectives on the current state and future direction of the industry. The episode addressed key issues such as the potential impact of tariffs, the shifting landscape of consumer behavior, and the role of innovation in driving the industry forward. The conversation began with a focus on the looming threat of tariffs and their potential repercussions for the RV industry. Eleonore Hamm provided insights into the Canadian perspective, explaining RVDA of Canada’s efforts to inform its members about the potential impact of counter tariff measures. She highlighted the challenges posed by the lack of a sufficient Canadian supply chain to meet the demand, with a significant portion of RVs sold in Canada being imported from the US. The tariffs, if implemented, would affect RVs crossing the border, potentially increasing costs for dealers and consumers. Phil Ingrassia, speaking from the United States, acknowledged the industry’s shared concerns regarding tariffs and underscored the importance of maintaining free and fair trade between the two countries. He noted the interconnectedness of the US and Canadian RV industries. Brian Searl raised the concern about the potential impact on private campgrounds if tariffs do go into effect. Eleonore Hamm responded that there could be a positive side for Canadian campgrounds as people might choose to camp locally. However, she expressed concern about the long-term impact on dealers and potentially on consumers. Eva Mitic contributed to the conversation by focusing on the role of technology and sustainability in shaping the future of the RV industry. She discussed trends like the increasing importance of user-friendly RV systems and the growing emphasis on sustainable practices. The episode explored how innovations such as lithium technology and artificial intelligence are transforming RV design and functionality, catering to evolving consumer expectations. The discussion also delved into the evolving landscape of consumer behavior in the RV and outdoor recreation sectors. Participants noted a trend toward ease of use and connectivity, as well as the impact of the COVID boom on consumer education and expectations. This has implications for both RV manufacturers and dealers, requiring them to adapt their offerings and strategies to meet changing consumer preferences. Brian Searl prompted the panel to consider various factors influencing the industry, from consumer behavior to technological advancements. Panelists discussed the importance of convenience and intuitive design, as well as the ongoing need to educate consumers about RV operation and maintenance. The episode further explored the challenges and opportunities associated with technological innovation in the RV industry, including the development and adoption of new power systems and the potential influence of electric vehicle technology. The complexities of research and development costs and the balance between innovation and affordability were also considered. The impact of economic uncertainties, including concerns about consumer sentiment and market fluctuations, was a recurring theme. Panelists analyzed the ways in which these factors influence consumer confidence and purchasing decisions, as well as business planning and investment in the RV sector. The discussion also underscored the increasing importance of advancements in RV components and systems, reflecting a broader trend toward enhanced functionality and user experience. The ongoing advancements in power systems and the potential to integrate “smart home” technology into RVs were highlighted as key areas of development. Ultimately, the MC Fireside Chats episode provided a valuable platform for exploring the multifaceted dynamics of the RV industry, bringing together diverse perspectives to analyze current challenges and anticipate future trends. The insights shared by industry experts contributed to a richer understanding of the forces shaping the sector and offered guidance for navigating its ongoing evolution.
March 26, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – March 26th, 2025

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, Brian Searl convened a panel of industry leaders to delve into the pressing issues and evolving trends impacting the RV and outdoor recreation sectors. The discussion featured Eleonore Hamm from RVDA of Canada, Shane Devenish of the Canadian RV Association (CRVA), Greg Emmert, Phil Ingrassia representing RVDA, and Aaron Bannon from the American Outdoors Association. The episode tackled the complex landscape of potential tariffs, shifting consumer behaviors, and the innovative strides being made within the industry, providing valuable insights for campground owners, RV dealers, and outdoor enthusiasts alike. The discussion began with the potential impact of tariffs on the RV industry. Eleonore Hamm explained that RVDA of Canada is providing information and resources to its members regarding potential counter tariff measures. She highlighted the lack of a sufficient Canadian supply chain to meet the demand, with a significant portion of RVs sold in Canada being imported from the US. The tariffs, if implemented, would affect RVs crossing the border, potentially increasing costs for dealers and consumers. Shane Devenish emphasized the difficulty in keeping everyone informed due to the rapidly changing situation. He also clarified that the Canadian countermeasures would only take effect if the US imposes tariffs on Canadian goods. Phil Ingrassia, speaking from Washington D.C., acknowledged the industry’s concern and stressed the importance of free and fair trade. He noted the interconnectedness of the US and Canadian RV industries. Brian Searl raised the concern about the potential impact on private campgrounds if tariffs do go into effect. Eleonore Hamm responded that there could be a positive side for Canadian campgrounds as people might choose to camp locally. However, she expressed concern about the long-term impact on dealers and potentially on consumers. Aaron Bannon provided an overview of the American Outdoors Association, which comprises organizations providing facilitated recreation experiences on public lands. He discussed the crossover between his members and the RV industry, noting that many guides live in RVs and that a robust tourism industry benefits outfitters. Bannon also mentioned trends like the increasing popularity of glamping and a shift towards shorter, less risky trips. Greg Emmert and Shane Devenish weighed in on the trend of shorter trips, linking it to economic uncertainty and fuel costs. Shane Devenish shared anecdotal evidence of some people planning longer trips within Canada. Brian Searl then posed a question about how businesses in different sectors could pivot in a moderately challenging economic scenario. Aaron Bannon suggested that outfitters might focus on attracting customers from nearby metropolitan areas and diversify their offerings. Greg Emmert emphasized the importance of partnerships and experiential offerings for campgrounds, particularly those near population centers. Eleonore Hamm said that Canadian RV dealers might focus more on pre-owned sales and service. Shane Devenish highlighted the challenges faced by parts suppliers and manufacturers on both sides of the border. Phil Ingrassia discussed the complexities of the situation for US manufacturers due to the sourcing of components and the impact of consumer sentiment on RV sales. Phil Ingrassia then discussed the RVIA’s emerging leaders program, which aims to connect and develop industry professionals. Aaron Bannon spoke about similar programs within the Outdoors Association, emphasizing the value of fresh perspectives. Phil Ingrassia also discussed Go RVing’s experiential events, which are designed to introduce RVing to people who may have little exposure to it. Eleonore Hamm added that Go RVing Canada also participates in similar events. Brian Searl then brought up Pebble, an all-electric RV with advanced technology. Greg Emmert provided details about Pebble’s features, including its self-hitching, remote control maneuverability, and extended vehicle range capabilities. Phil Ingrassia noted that the company was founded by former Tesla executives and that these types of innovations may appeal to a new demographic of RVers. In their final thoughts, Eleonore Hamm thanked everyone for the opportunity to speak. Greg Emmert stressed the importance of developing the next generation of leaders in the outdoor hospitality industry. Aaron Bannon highlighted the passage of the Explore Act and its potential to facilitate new outfitter businesses. Shane Devenish mentioned the CRVA’s 50th anniversary and upcoming special events. Phil Ingrassia expressed optimism about the upcoming season. Eleonore Hamm provided information on how to access the petition regarding tariffs on the RVDA website.
February 26, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – February 26th, 2025

The latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, kicked off with the usual banter between recurring guests Greg Emmert and Angele Miller, setting a lighthearted tone before diving into deeper discussions about the RV industry, outdoor recreation, and emerging trends in travel and accommodations. With key players from the RV industry unavailable due to board meetings, the conversation took a broader focus on innovative housing solutions and the evolving landscape of outdoor hospitality. Angele Miller highlighted the growing demand for wellness tourism, emphasizing how nature-based experiences like meditation, yoga, and Nordic-style wellness treatments are attracting more visitors. She pointed out that people are increasingly looking for ways to integrate nature into their well-being, whether through forest bathing, herbal tea rituals, or simply unplugging in scenic environments. This shift aligns with broader travel trends where guests seek holistic experiences rather than just a place to stay. The discussion expanded into economic factors affecting the industry, particularly cross-border travel. Brian and Angele touched on the decline in Canadian travelers heading to the U.S. due to the weak Canadian dollar and political factors, with more locals opting for domestic vacations instead. This has resulted in an uptick in Canadian campground reservations, highlighting the economic shifts that are reshaping travel habits. Brent Fullerton, general manager of Carefree RV, provided insights into customer service strategies that are refining RV sales and rentals. He discussed the industry’s need to improve the service experience, especially given labor shortages and the challenge of keeping up with seasonal demand. Brent emphasized that while the RV industry has traditionally been laid-back, the current economic climate requires a more proactive approach to customer service, faster response times, and greater efficiency in handling repairs and parts shortages. He also noted the importance of adapting to changing consumer expectations, particularly in an era where customers demand high-quality service and instant solutions. Arthur Jason, CEO of AC Future, introduced his company’s AI-powered transformer homes, which were recently showcased at CES 2025. These modular, off-grid living spaces use artificial intelligence to optimize energy use, harvest water from the air, and create a self-sustaining environment. Arthur explained how these units offer a high-end, flexible alternative to traditional housing and could redefine the concept of mobile living. He also touched on their potential application for glamping, RV parks, and sustainable outdoor accommodations, making them an attractive option for operators looking to enhance guest experiences with cutting-edge technology. Greg Emmert and Brian explored the broader implications of AI-driven housing and its role in shaping the future of outdoor travel. They discussed the potential for these homes to be integrated into themed glamping resorts, offering curated experiences that cater to specific demographics. From a Mars-themed desert retreat to a high-tech forest getaway, these modular homes could provide a unique alternative to traditional cabins and yurts, pushing the boundaries of outdoor hospitality. The conversation also touched on the larger societal shifts toward automation and AI, with Brian speculating on the impact of robotic assistants in everyday life. He noted that fully functional humanoid robots could be available within the next few years for as little as $20,000 to $30,000, potentially transforming domestic life and further influencing travel habits. The panel debated whether these advancements would lead to greater mobility, with people embracing flexible, technology-driven living spaces instead of traditional homes. As the episode wrapped up, each guest reflected on the opportunities and challenges ahead. Arthur reiterated his commitment to bringing AC Future’s homes to Canada, while Brent acknowledged the need for continued innovation in the RV industry to meet evolving customer demands. Angele emphasized that regardless of technological advancements, the fundamental appeal of outdoor recreation remains the same: people seek connection with nature and meaningful experiences. The episode served as a deep dive into the intersection of outdoor hospitality, technology, and shifting consumer behaviors. With innovative solutions like AI-powered homes and evolving approaches to RV sales and rentals, the industry is adapting to a changing landscape where customer expectations, economic pressures, and sustainability concerns are reshaping the future of travel and outdoor living.

Recurring Guests

Mychele Bisson, Bison Peak Ventures

Mychele Bisson

Bison Peak Ventures
Cara Csizmadia, Canadian Camping & RV Association

Cara Csizmadia

Canadian Camping & RV Association
Matt Whittemore, Climb Capital

Matt Whittemore

Climb Capital
Ravi Parikh, RoverPass

Ravi Parikh

RoverPass
Sarah Stahl, Market Movers

Sarah Stahl

Market Movers

Week 5 - Multi-Sector Show

On the rare occasions when a month has a fifth Wednesday, we present a special multi-sector episode. This collaborative platform brings together a diverse panel of guests from the glamping, campground, RV, outdoor recreation, and activities industries. The rich discussion fosters a multifaceted understanding, offering varied perspectives and insights from across these sectors.

September 30, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – September 30th, 2026

During the September 30, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, property operators Stephanie Bias and Munro Murdock emphasized that the future of outdoor hospitality relies on blending invisible backend technology with highly curated, generation-specific guest experiences—ranging from luxury all-inclusive glamping to diverse, nature-focused hybrid parks.
July 29, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – July 29th, 2026

Industry experts on the July 29th MC Fireside Chats emphasized that hospitality operators must first document their internal workflows to successfully adopt AI and digital tools, enabling them to streamline operations, personalize guest experiences, and increase profitability without losing the essential human touch.
April 29, 2026

MC Fireside Chats – April 29th, 2026

Host Brian Searl and a panel of outdoor hospitality experts—including Marie Nichols, Duncan Winship, and Ashley Cary—discussed how international travel apps, changing generational preferences, and data-driven marketing are transforming the modern camping industry.
October 29, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – October 29th, 2025

The latest MC Fireside Chats episode focused on how glamping operators are revolutionizing outdoor hospitality by prioritizing unique, high-touch guest experiences and personal connection, demonstrating that success in the industry, regardless of scale or location, relies on moving beyond simple accommodation.
July 30, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – July 30th, 2025

In this special fifth week episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomes three glamping pioneers—from the UK to Costa Rica—for a global look at the evolving outdoor hospitality landscape. The guests dive into everything from guest engagement and winter operations to marketing challenges, AI, and the future of glamping.
April 30, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – April 30th, 2025

The MC Fireside Chats episode on April 30th, 2025, began with host Brian Searl acknowledging technical difficulties at the start of the show. Brian then introduced the guests: Mychele Bisson, Mary Sparrow, and Heidi Royle, each bringing a unique perspective on the outdoor hospitality industry. Mychele Bisson shared her work with Bison Peak Ventures, acquiring campgrounds across the country, revitalizing them, and aiming to preserve the original family’s legacy. She emphasized the importance of maintaining the essence of these establishments while introducing modern improvements. Mary Sparrow discussed her ownership of a boatyard in the east of England and her innovative approach to hospitality with floating glamping pods. Her business evolved from traditional houseboats to unique, luxury floating accommodations, offering guests a distinctive experience on the water. Heidi Royle detailed her journey of establishing the Groove Glamping, a glamping site in Minnesota, located near a state park. She highlighted the natural attractions of the area, such as the clear water creeks and the state park, which enhance the appeal of her glamping site. The discussion then shifted to the concept of “glamping,” with various perspectives on its definition and evolution. The guests explored how glamping has changed over time, influenced by social media and the increasing demand for unique outdoor experiences. The challenges and strategies of promoting and operating glamping sites were also discussed. Heidi Royle shared her experience with influencer collaborations to increase awareness of the Grove Glamping. Mary Sparrow provided insights into the complexities of running a business that combines traditional boating with modern glamping. This included the unique considerations for floating accommodations and the importance of preserving the natural environment. Mychele Bisson spoke about Bison Peak Ventures’ business model of acquiring and upgrading campgrounds, emphasizing the rewarding aspect of providing families with opportunities to connect and create memories in nature. A significant part of the conversation focused on the personal fulfillment derived from operating these businesses. The guests shared stories of the joy and satisfaction that comes from seeing families and children enjoy the outdoors, away from the distractions of modern technology. The episode concluded with the guests sharing their final thoughts and where to find more information about their businesses. The overarching theme was the value of creating unique outdoor experiences and the positive impact these experiences have on individuals and families.
January 29, 2025

MC Fireside Chats – January 29th, 2025

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed Josef Hjelmaker, CEO of Electric Outdoors, Robert Preston, CEO and Founder of Unhitched Management, and Matt and Karina Torres, owners of Bayshore RV Park, to discuss their experiences and insights into the outdoor hospitality and RV park industries. The conversation covered everything from business growth and sustainability to unique guest experiences and the future of the industry. Robert Preston shared his journey from a military pilot to a real estate investor, now owning 14 RV parks through Climb Capital and Unhitched Management. His focus is on fostering a sense of community within his parks, providing spaces where guests can disconnect from daily life and reconnect with nature and each other. He emphasized the importance of safe, clean, and welcoming environments in creating a successful RV park experience. His management philosophy revolves around treating employees well so they, in turn, provide exceptional hospitality to guests. He also spoke about his approach to acquiring and scaling parks, explaining that his growth is based on finding good deals while ensuring that each new acquisition enhances the efficiency and effectiveness of his existing properties. Josef Hjelmaker introduced Electric Outdoors, a company focused on sustainability and innovation in outdoor hospitality. His company develops portable, self-sustaining destination platforms that generate their own energy, manage water, and handle waste independently. The units, designed to be placed in remote or off-grid locations, offer a new way to camp without requiring traditional infrastructure or permits. He explained how these platforms provide flexibility for landowners and park operators, allowing them to create new camping experiences in places previously inaccessible to RVs and traditional campers. The conversation also touched on the growing role of electric vehicles in outdoor recreation, with Josef discussing how his technology supports off-grid stays while accommodating the needs of EV travelers. He highlighted the importance of digital integration, explaining how his platforms use connectivity to enhance user experience through booking, energy management, and local activity recommendations. Matt and Karina Torres shared their experience of acquiring and revitalizing Bayshore RV Park on the Washington coast. Their journey began when Matt, a former framer and general contractor, and Karina, with a background in property management, combined their skills to turn their park into a thriving business. They emphasized the importance of hands-on management, directly engaging with guests to provide personalized service and a welcoming atmosphere. They spoke about their approach to balancing long-term and transient guests, their focus on creating unique experiences such as easy access to crabbing in Willapa Bay, and their strategy for reinvesting profits back into the park. They also discussed their long-term goal of eventually hiring a dedicated manager so they can expand to additional properties while ensuring their guests continue to receive the same level of care and hospitality. The discussion highlighted the changing landscape of the outdoor hospitality industry and the increasing importance of offering more than just a place to stay. The guests agreed that creating meaningful experiences for visitors, whether through high-touch customer service, sustainable accommodations, or fostering a sense of community, is key to long-term success. Brian Searl noted that the industry has thrived for years with minimal effort due to economic conditions, but moving forward, park owners will need to be more intentional about guest experiences to maintain and grow their businesses. He pointed out that travelers are looking for something unique, and parks that can deliver on that will be the ones that stand out in an increasingly competitive market. The conversation also touched on the challenges and rewards of park ownership. Robert spoke about the balance between growth and operational efficiency, explaining that his goal is not just to acquire more properties but to ensure each park is well-run and financially sustainable. He emphasized the importance of hiring entrepreneurial-minded managers who treat the business as their own and make decisions that benefit both guests and ownership. Matt and Karina reflected on their initial struggles and learning experiences, including the realization that hiring the wrong staff can impact guest satisfaction. They shared how they adjusted their management approach to be more involved, ensuring that guests feel valued from the moment they arrive. As the discussion wrapped up, Brian announced the launch of a new podcast called Outwired, which will focus on data, AI, and technology in outdoor hospitality. The show will feature unfiltered discussions on industry trends, innovations, and challenges, with co-hosts Greg Emmert from Camp Strategy and Scott Bahr from Cairn Consulting Group. The episode ended with a shared enthusiasm for the future of the outdoor hospitality industry, with all guests expressing optimism about the opportunities ahead for park owners who are willing to innovate and prioritize guest experiences. The insights from this episode underscored the industry’s evolution, with sustainability, community-building, and technology playing a growing role in shaping the next generation of outdoor accommodations.
October 30, 2024

MC Fireside Chats – October 30th, 2024

In the October 30, 2024 episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl brings together several guests to explore various perspectives in outdoor hospitality and the RV industry. The episode features Ken Barber from Wild Haven Glamping, Leslie Taylor-Rharbi from Signature RV Resorts by Zeman, and Paul Craven and Anthony Wollschlager from Airxcel. Brian starts by introducing the guests, encouraging them to share insights about their companies and experiences. Leslie kicks things off by describing her role in managing Zeman’s luxury RV resorts, specifically the “Signature” line, known for providing high-end amenities and tailored experiences. She emphasizes that while they’ve moved away from labeling the resorts as “luxury,” Zeman’s properties continue to offer lush landscapes and a range of amenities like pickleball courts, large clubhouses, and lounges to enhance guest experiences. Ken shares the story of Wild Haven Glamping, discussing how his company provides a mid-tier glamping experience that strikes a balance between comfort and the rustic nature of camping. His properties feature canvas tents and small cabins in scenic locations like Sonoma County and Yosemite, emphasizing a natural and immersive experience over excessive luxury. Ken underscores the challenges they’ve faced, particularly in terms of permits, zoning, and construction, especially with their recent Yosemite property. Despite these hurdles, he and his team focus on delivering unique experiences that attract tourists from across the world. Leslie and Ken agree that evolving guest expectations shape their operations. Leslie notes that Zeman’s properties attract a retiree demographic who expect comfort and quality; however, the increasing demand for “luxury” resorts has redefined the standards of guest experiences, with visitors now expecting amenities akin to high-end hotels. Ken adds that Wild Haven’s guests are typically more open to a stripped-down luxury, opting for a unique natural experience over a traditionally luxurious one. They also touch on the importance of managing expectations through strategic language and marketing, emphasizing terms like “signature” instead of “luxury,” which sets an authentic tone that aligns with their guests’ values. The conversation then shifts to Airxcel, where Anthony and Paul discuss their roles in supplying RV components, such as air conditioners, water heaters, and ventilation systems, that enhance comfort for RV travelers. They explain that Airxcel has a long-standing history in Elkhart, Indiana, the “RV capital” of the U.S., providing essential products to RV manufacturers. Their focus on innovation helps the company anticipate trends, such as the rising demand for sustainable products and off-grid experiences. Paul emphasizes that Airxcel keeps a close watch on industry trends and consumer demands, aiming to deliver products that meet the evolving needs of RV enthusiasts, from full-time RVers to occasional campers. Anthony elaborates on the shift in RV ownership demographics since COVID-19, explaining how younger families and first-time RVers are increasingly investing in the lifestyle. With Airxcel’s established brands, such as Coleman air conditioners and Suburban water heaters, the company leverages its expertise to stay competitive and support new trends in the industry. Paul and Anthony both stress that consumer expectations are driving changes within the RV and camping sectors, where personalization, data-driven guest insights, and seamless technology integration are becoming essential for a superior experience. Brian also dives into potential future trends, sparking an engaging discussion on the influence of AI, automation, and personalization. The guests contemplate how new technology could transform both the outdoor hospitality and RV industries, with Brian suggesting that technology should serve to elevate the guest experience, not detract from it. Ken and Leslie agree, envisioning AI tools that could enable them to provide small, personalized touches, like welcome gifts and birthday recognition, that enhance customer satisfaction without feeling intrusive. Paul underscores the importance of AI in developing more sustainable RV solutions, citing the growing interest in systems that reduce energy use by automatically adjusting to guests’ schedules. Throughout the discussion, the guests emphasize the importance of clear expectations and strong branding. Ken and Leslie both prioritize aligning their offerings with guest expectations, ensuring that their brands promise experiences they can consistently deliver. By avoiding terms like “luxury” and “pampering” in their marketing, both Ken and Leslie are careful to set the right tone for their properties, allowing guests to feel comfortable and engaged in the outdoor experience. The episode concludes with the guests sharing where listeners can find more information about their companies and locations. Ken invites listeners to Wild Haven Glamping in Sonoma County or Yosemite to experience the beauty of Northern California. Leslie and the Airxcel team encourage interested listeners to explore Signature RV Resorts by Zeman and Airxcel’s various product offerings, respectively. The conversation wraps up on a note of optimism, with each guest expressing enthusiasm for the future of outdoor hospitality, the evolution of guest experiences, and the innovations likely to shape the industry in years to come.
July 31, 2024

MC Fireside Chats – July 31st, 2024 

In the July 31st episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, the discussion brought together Pier Tognazzini, founder and COO of MooVert France, and Dustin Sauer, owner of Overland Van Project, to delve into the evolving trends in outdoor hospitality, sustainable tourism, and the growing van life movement. Brian Searl kicked off the episode by acknowledging the uniqueness of the discussion, as it was one of those rare “fifth-week” episodes without the usual lineup of regular guests. Instead, this episode featured a deep dive into niche areas of outdoor hospitality, beginning with Pier Tognazzini. Pier introduced MooVert France, a company dedicated to promoting tourism in France through an eco-friendly and authentic lens. He emphasized MooVert France’s commitment to helping accommodations transition into more sustainable practices by using an algorithm that evaluates properties based on their level of eco-friendliness, sustainability, and authenticity. Pier explained that MooVert is not just about reducing environmental impact but also about offering tourists an experience that goes beyond the typical attractions, allowing them to connect deeply with local culture, heritage, and nature. He provided examples of how MooVert curates these experiences, such as offering stays in tree houses, tiny homes, and even traditional French chateaux. Pier also discussed how MooVert helps property owners make small but impactful changes, such as installing water-saving devices, to enhance sustainability without compromising guest comfort. The conversation also touched on the importance of authenticity, with Pier explaining that MooVert prioritizes experiences that allow travelers to engage with local traditions and communities, such as making cheese in Normandy or harvesting honey in the Alps. Dustin Sauer then introduced Overland Van Project, which specializes in creating high-end, custom expedition vehicles and camper vans designed for those seeking adventure and luxury on the road. Dustin shared the origins of his company, which began as a personal project but quickly grew into a thriving business as demand for custom vans surged during the pandemic. He highlighted how the van life movement, amplified by social media and the hashtag #vanlife, has evolved from a niche lifestyle into a significant trend within the outdoor industry. Dustin discussed the challenges and opportunities within the current market, noting that while there has been a plateau in demand following the pandemic boom, there is still a strong interest in high-quality, custom-built vans. He emphasized the importance of innovation and craftsmanship in differentiating Overland Van Project from other builders, with a focus on integrating advanced features such as hydronic heating systems, high-end electrical setups, and luxury finishes that cater to the specific needs of their clients. Despite the market becoming saturated with both DIY and commercially produced vans, Dustin remains optimistic, citing the enduring appeal of van life and the desire for off-the-grid, self-sufficient travel experiences. The conversation between the three touched on the intersection of sustainability and the outdoor lifestyle. Dustin noted that many of his clients, despite investing in luxury vans, prefer to camp in remote, free locations like BLM lands, rather than traditional RV resorts. This aligns with the growing trend towards authentic, nature-based experiences that Pier’s company, MooVert, also champions. The guests and Brian discussed how this shift reflects broader changes in consumer behavior, where travelers are increasingly seeking out unique and meaningful experiences rather than conventional tourist activities. A significant portion of the discussion was devoted to the challenges of marketing to niche audiences in a competitive landscape dominated by large platforms like Airbnb and Booking.com. Pier and Dustin both emphasized the importance of authenticity in their marketing efforts, whether through social media engagement or creating compelling content that resonates with their target audiences. They acknowledged the difficulties small businesses face in standing out, but also highlighted the potential of social media and viral content to level the playing field. Brian also brought up the role of artificial intelligence (AI) in helping small businesses enhance their marketing strategies and reach. He expressed optimism about how AI could assist companies like MooVert France and Overland Van Project in creating more tailored and effective marketing campaigns, thereby connecting with their niche audiences more efficiently. The episode wrapped up with final thoughts from Pier and Dustin on the future of their respective industries. Pier expressed enthusiasm about the potential expansion of MooVert France into North America, hinting at ongoing discussions with state governments in Nevada and California. Dustin, on the other hand, reiterated his commitment to pushing the boundaries of van design and continuing to provide exceptional, high-quality products for his clients. Overall, this episode of MC Fireside Chats provided a rich exploration of the current trends and future directions in outdoor hospitality, with a strong emphasis on sustainability, authenticity, and the evolving desires of modern travelers. The insights shared by Pier Tognazzini and Dustin Sauer offered valuable perspectives on how businesses can adapt and thrive in this dynamic and competitive industry.